ATG: Who Ranks Higher? Roy Jones Jr or Evander Holyfield?

Okay, let's be honest; how many of have Serge as our favorite poster?

 

My vote is to Roy. Helluva run. Holyfield has the distinction of being the best CW (or, well, at absolute worst; 2nd) and that does mean a lot even if the division is young. But Roy is among the best ever definitions of "Pound for Pound."

 

Roy's just outside my top ten.

Holy doesn't crack my top fifty.

 

I can see Evander's win vs Bowe as comparable to Toney, but not Mike. That's a reach. While I'm a fan of Toney, whether pre or post prison he's not comparable to Mike.

I won't go there on Holmes because that one is obvious... I can at least understand making a case for Hill but Griffin, no. The Griffin win isn't particularly special and Griffin is surely not comparable to Foreman before retirement and not really after either.

I get that Foreman was older and not the fighter he was in his heyday but he did capture a HW title in his comeback. That has to say something about the man in comparison to Griffin.

Also, the first Griffin fight never sat well with me, even all these years later. Mainly, because he was fighting on even terms with Roy until the knockdown and DQ.

When it comes to Roy, this isn't hindsight... even during his run... I wasn't impressed. He had one truly amazing performance against Toney in my view and there are those who debate that win endlessly because Toney didn't come in shape.

I just don't have Roy where a lot of others do. Is what it is...

 

Evander Holyfield. Undisputed champion at Cruiserweight and Heavyweight. Got robbed in winning the WBA title aged 46, which would make him the oldest heavyweight champion in history.

 

TISONLYONEKING,

There’s no logic behind that opinion.

How is it a reach?

James Toney was 26 years old.

He was a top 3, P4P fighter in the world at the time.

He’d beaten McCallum, Reggie and Nunn at MW, and he’d recently beaten Barkley, Thornton, Littles and Williams at SMW.

He was in his prime.

Mike Tyson was faded. He’d already been beaten 6 years earlier by Douglas, and he’d been in prison for 3 years. Yes, he was still very dangerous, but not anywhere near the fighter he’d been against Holmes and Spinks.

Evander had already lost twice to Bowe and once to Moorer before he easily beat Mike. And Mike did nothing noteworthy afterwards.

Don’t be influenced by the magnitude of the fight.

By 1996, Mike Tyson wasn’t on the level of Evander, Bowe and Lennox.

He wasn’t the great fighter he’d once been.

On a P4P basis, James Toney was certainly on Mike’s level.

Montell Griffin was a very good LHW. He was a small, defensive counterpuncher with an unusual build for the weight. He was skilled and technical, and was trained by Eddie Futch. He gave Roy a great fight and he beat Toney twice in very close, technical fights.

Roy knocked him out in a single round with a lead uppercut.

If a former MW knocks out a very capable LHW in a single round with an uppercut, that is a very special win. How could it not have been?

This is not a popularity contest.

Evander was in his prime against George, and George was in his 40’s, going into the ring after beating faded and low level fighters. He lost to Tommy Morrison shortly afterwards, after Morrison had already been pummelled by Ray Mercer.

Foreman was incredibly tough and he put up a great showing against Evander. But there was nothing special about beating a 40 odd year old George Foreman.

You can’t rate the win over Foreman higher, just based on Griffin not having any name value.

It was a great win for George at 45. Outstanding. But nobody gave Morrison huge credit for beating him the year before.

He gave Roy a lot of trouble before Roy turned things around. Roy definitely deserved to be disqualified though.

You don’t have to be impressed. Your personal preference may be different to other fans. But give credit where it’s due. Be objective.

We’re talking here about an Olympic JMW and former MW champ, who moved up 2 divisions and destroyed world class LHW’s with absolute ease, where he barely lost rounds.

How can that not have been impressive?

He toyed with world class fighters like they were nothing.

He went up to HW and easily beat a top 10 ranked HW who’d given Evander 3 tough fights.

He burnt muscle in 2 months in order to drop back down to LHW to face Tarver. And he was almost 35, with 49 fights on his resume. Tarver was fresher and a dangerous southpaw who presented him with a tough stylistic match up.

How was that not impressive?

You can absolutely rate Roy’s best wins alongside of Evander’s best wins.

You are not being objective if you don’t.

 

Montell was a good solid fighter, not a great one. What's so great about what he went on to do after Jones?

 

Holyfield was more tested. We learnt more about him. I don't believe anyone is too good to be touched. That was partly Jones' curse. You can say he was better but it's hard to say he was greater.

 

Nobody is saying that Montell was a great fighter.

What I’m saying, is that Montell was a very good fighter, and it was great how Roy moved up two weight classes and utterly demolished him in a single round.

Roy also demolished Hill which nobody else ever did, who then went on to obtain a belt at CW a few years later.

Both of those wins are comparable to Evander’s other wins outside of Bowe and Tyson.

George Foreman wasn’t a great HW in the 90’s.

It’s really baffling why you think a faded Mike Tyson was a better P4P fighter than James Toney and on another level.

 

You have far too much time on your hands.

 

You keep posting the same stuff dude.

You may as well just copy and paste every day.

 

We’ve already established that you can’t refute what I’ve said.

You’ve now been reduced to just making snide comments.

You only want to debate when it’s something that interests you and when everyone’s in agreement with what you’ve said. But as soon as that changes, you take your ball home with you.

Either come back and debate my points, or sit it out and let the rest of us debate.

 

You post the same posts all day every day. It's like a robot. No sane person would waste their time with you. Its scary.