Patterson was one of the weakest HW champs of all....zero chin. And he was literally frightened into seclusion by Liston. Take away Listons stare and you have him on the way to a loss. Ali wasn't afraid of Liston and made him quit on his stool. Dempsey wouldn't be intimidated. And he was too quick and agile to get hit with Listons powerful punches. I say Dempsey frustrates Liston and wins by another quitting on a stool. I'm not downplaying Listons abilities...the strongest man I ever met sparred with Liston and he told me Liston was the strongest man HE ever met...but he had chinks in his armor and I believe Dempsey takes advantage of them.
He also beat Miteff, Rischer, and Daniels all rated. The only reason their aren't more rated fighters on his resume, is because they didn't wanna get in the ring with him!
I have to say I USED to think that way about Patterson. Upon further investigation of his record and opposition I had to change my opinion. He was a great fighter with maybe more heart then any champ ever. Liston was just a beast.
OK Patterson is the youngest lineal Heavyweight Champ of all time, is the first to regain the title after losing it, would've been the first three time champion had it not been for the late career robberies, beat more ranked heavyweights than Foreman, had a great post-title career. The greatest fighter of all time, called him the most skilled fighter he ever fought. Where are Miske and Sharkey's similar achievments? https://www.ringtv.com/410833-bill-caplans-20-greatest-heavyweights/ http://www.boxing.com/the_100_greatest_heavyweights_of_all_time_part_nine_20_11.html You were implying that the only reason Patterson is rated higher is because their is more footage on him correct? OK. Let me break this down for you because evidently you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I stated 70sfan said that Patterson has a superior resume to Sharkey. You call this a "blatant lie". I then provided a quote where he admits he has "him (Sharkey) below." You seem to be arguing with yourself here!
Again, as I've explained before, we now have access to information, footage, and records we did not have previously, that we can now use to make a proper assessment.
Oh yeah I forgot, just because Ali made (a mid 30s going on 40s) Liston quit on his stool (after a debilitating shoulder injury attested to by 8 doctors) so would everybody else he gets in the ring with.
Both were similar fighters. Punching power certainly not in question, neither was remotely quick, yet both had good, strong jabs. Both had iron jaws. However, I would slightly favor Dempsey in a distance contest. But if Liston wins, it's certainly no upset for me. I think we could all agree this fight lasts not much longer than Dempsey-Firpo or Liston-Williams.
Beating more top 10 heavyweights than Foreman isn’t that great of an achievement considering he’s known for having his resume consisting of a lot of tomato cans and cab drivers. Incredibly low hanging fruit you’re grabbing. For the 5th time I’m not arguing that Patterson isn’t a great fighter. I’m not even arguing that he shouldn’t be ranked higher than Sharkey. I’m arguing that he isn’t “far greater” than any of Dempsey’s opponents because that was what was originally stated. Do you need me to explain it again? Ringtv also ranks Marciano above Lewis, Foreman, Holyfield, Tyson, Klitschko, and Liston. Would you agree with that too? Or just what backs up your argument. Not to mention they rank Dempsey above Liston... Boxing.com ranks Patterson above Vitali, Bowe, and a few others. Do you agree with that too? No, I’m saying it’s a contributing factor. Any rational person would agree. However it’s certainly not the only reason. Because it is a blatant lie. 70sfan never said Patterson had the better resume, he said they have comparable resumes. He went on to say in that same sentence that he ranks Patterson higher in the top 20. Not because of resumes though.
Nice points DanDaly. I tend to think of Floyd as an all-time great heavyweight, but not one of the greatest champions. He beat many quality fighters, but most of them were not when he was champion. Hurricane and Ingo were the only two good fighters he beat as champion. However, when he wasn't champion, he beat the likes of Jackson, Archie Moore, Johansson, Machen, Chuvalo, Henry Cooper, and Oscar Bonavena. Throw in robbery losses to Quarry and Ellis, and Patterson is an all-time great for sure.
Do you really believe the Quarry losses are robberies? I always felt the were razor close and could of gone either way. I do believe his loss to Maxim was a robbery but again i"ve seen people debate that as well.
Come to think of it, Firpo probably has better wins than Williams too? Firpo took Harry Wills to a ND and knocked out Willard and Bill Brennan. These were attended by crowds of 30,000 or more fans. I think these are higher profile wins than Williams Beating Terry and Billy Daniels. Firpo was actually the second biggest draw in Boxing during the Dempsey era.
Hilarious. Firpo didn't win a round against the ageing Wills but you're somehow trying to count that as a win because it was a no-decision bout. And you wonder why people accuse you of dishonesty.