Debating my top ten CW list

Both could enter the last places on my list, huck's best victories are all questionable, in my opinion almost all of them lost: Lebedev, Arslan 1, the 4 fights with Afolabi, etc.
More or less the same thing I think of yph, both are local fighters who owe the career to their promoters or managers

 

He was exposed, but not necessarily in the way that improved him as a fighter. He was still sloppy and wild; he just never fought anyone that tough again (barring Abdoul, who was little more than a punchbag).

Against who though? In that time the only decent fighter he beat was Mormeck, and he had to get off the canvas to win. Fragomeni also gave him issues.

Want to see the run of a killer? Look at Gassiev's run from Shimmell to Dorticos.

I think Huck deserves to be in consideration. He might or might not make your top ten, but he shouldn't be too far out of it on anyone's list.

 

I'd like to see some actual evidence that he'd be able to do this. Against Fragomeni he was constantly getting hit, despite trying to keep things on the outside. Needless to say Gomez is a hell of a lot sharper, quicker and lengthier than the stocky Italian; that's assuming Gomez isn't doing the pot shotting of his own, which past performances indicate he would be.

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He had all the physical advantages here, length, height, speed, youth, and yet he still found himself taking all sorts of shots off Fragomeni. Why?

 

You thought all four Afolabi fights were questionable? Have you seen number four?

 

In no way does he enter my top 10, he would hardly enter my top 25.



In my opinion his 2 best victories were ramirez and Arslan 2

 

You are right huck clearly won the four fight

 

Maybe, but he still fought recklessly and still had pacing issues which he never quite sorted out until he moved up to HW.

How impressive was his performance against Mormeck? Any more impressive than Bell's? No, less so, since he got knocked down by an older and more beat up version of JMM. Fragomeni? Terrible performance against a short, come forward slugger with a bit of craft that wasn't wowed by Haye's speed but ultimately lacked the quality to take him out. He looked good against guys he was supposed to look good against, and started to struggle once he began to fight at a higher level. There's no guarantee a fresher Mormeck, or even the Mormeck that lost to Haye couldn't have beaten him based on his performances.

Huck is the joint-longest reigning CW champion in history. I think that merits considerations when ranking. He was also a H2H nightmare for anyone, and nearly took out a prime Povetkin in a back and forth war. And while his resume isn't particularly impressive, I'd argue it isn't any worse than Haye's when you break it down: Lebedev/Mormeck, Afolabi/Enzo, Arslan/Fragomeni, etc (though the Lebedev win was highly disputed I'll grant you).

Huck had major limitations as a fighter, but then so did Haye. Neither man was some masterful technician despite Haye fans wanting to paint him otherwise. In fact, put a prime Huck and a prime Haye in the ring together and it's fifty fifty who gets taken out.

Gomez I think boxes the socks off Haye.

 

The join-longest running CW champ in history barely merits a top 25 ranking? That's ludicrous in my view, and supposes a level of quality in the rest of the field that isn't warranted.

I'd say his wins over Afolabi (close, competitive fights, but not robberies in my view) are worthy of mention as well. I'd hesitate to mention his win over Lebedev because it was controversial, so I can understand if you would disregard that.

 

Those are admirable qualities, but not something a supposed CW great should have to display against the fighters he did it against. Fragomeni's 'relentless pressure' was relegated to slowly plodding forward pumping out a jab and a right hand which Haye kept getting caught by, then going to work on him on the ropes. It was hardly prime Jirov stuff. Frankly the fact Haye struggled at all given his much greater tools is a black mark against him. Mormeck was already old and ring-worn following his battles with Bell (why is he below Haye?) and still managed to drop Haye. Did Usyk have to get off the canvas against Huck to beat him? Or Glowacki? Or Gassiev? That's the type of company you want to put Haye in and he doesn't compare.

How you look in the ring is important yes, but you're arguing for Haye's corner who looked like hot ass against Fragomeni. You're also rating Huck or a criterion which Haye never had to demonstrate, namely title defences. Had Haye stuck around in the division there's no guarantee he wouldn't also have had his struggles and disputed victories. He had one at heavy against Valuev so he was clearly not immune to getting the favourable nod from the judges.

Gomez showed enough during his tenure as champ for me to comfortably pick him. I can see a case being made for Haye though, just not a very convincing one, IMO.

 

From my point of view it does not count for anything to have the longest reign if you won several of those fights in a dubious way, Huck was the Sven Otkke of the 2000s, yesterday I saw his fight against Tokarev for the first time and on my cards it was a tie, without localia's help Huck's win summary is very fine.
I am not talking about a single fight when you win 5 fights undeservedly it is theft, ask Afolabi what he thinks, everyone knew that if you did not knock him out you would lose by points....

That's why reign does not count and Huck's only clear victories were against Ramirez and Arslan 2 who was about 40 years old ... very little to enter my top 25

 

This
I pick Haye late tko over Huck