Fury's wins over Wlad and Wilder eclipse any single wins on Lennox's resume

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 2, 2020.


Agree with the thread title?

Poll closed May 18, 2021.

  1. Yay

    22 vote(s)
    25.3%

  2. Nay

    65 vote(s)
    74.7%
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  1. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    37 year old Holyfield beats 39 year old Wlad, and destroys any version of Wilder.
     
    theanatolian, Jun 3, 2020
    theanatolian, Jun 3, 2020
    #16
    MarkusFlorez99 likes this.
  2. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    Wlad: post prime

    Wilder: vastly overhyped one trick ponny with a punchers chance...
     
    SmackDaBum, Jun 3, 2020
    SmackDaBum, Jun 3, 2020
    #17
  3. fitzroy boy_iron mike

    fitzroy boy_iron mike Active Member Full Member

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    Thats precisely what I stated as not my point here. this is not about depth of resume but the two greatest wins on Fury's resume eclipsing any of Lens
     
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    #18
  4. fitzroy boy_iron mike

    fitzroy boy_iron mike Active Member Full Member

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    Which wins of Lens were better than Fury's decisive wins over Long-reigning Lineal Wlad and undefeated WBC holder Wilder?
     
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    #19
  5. fitzroy boy_iron mike

    fitzroy boy_iron mike Active Member Full Member

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    Name a win of Lens thats better than either of these two and lets compare
     
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    #20
  6. fitzroy boy_iron mike

    fitzroy boy_iron mike Active Member Full Member

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    Fury put a masterclass of feint, slip, move on Wlad and decisively schooled him... Wlad was long-reigning Lineal champ going into this. This was a legitimate dethroning. Name me a similar decisive win in Lens record.

    Wilder similarly was long reiging WBC champ. To become a long-reigning WBC champ, the most prestigious belt, is no small accomplishment. He was concensus top three when Fury beat him down. Again, name me a similar decisive win in Lens record
     
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    #21
  7. fitzroy boy_iron mike

    fitzroy boy_iron mike Active Member Full Member

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    We're not talking legacies. Im proposing that Fury's two defining wins are greater than any of Lens

    Again mate, I am not talking legacies here. I'm talking about Fury's two big wins. Show me which Lens wins are greater

    I dont think so. Holyfield would have struggled with the size. Wlad was all wrong for Holy. Besides, Len beat Holy after the WARS with Bowe. Holy vs Wilder- probably, but again- Lewis beat Holy after his WARS with Bowe. Fury's win over Wilder was greater.
     
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    #22
  8. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    This Fury hype is getting out of hand.

    Concerning Wlad: Fury barely beat him. He probably landed 1-2 punches more per round, none of which could be described as shattering. He puttering around all night against a 40 year old fighter who was in in a bad space mentally at that time. When Wlad opened up the taps in round 12 Fury was clearly unhappy. The win was a win, but "decisive"? No.

    Then, let us not forget that Fury blatantly ducked the rematch despite talking up a storm. Lewis got knocked out cold vs Rahman and came back to return the favour. Why does Fury get credit for wimping out of a contractually agreed rematch against Wlad? Please. That's a big stain.

    Next: it wasn't as if Fury was the first person to beat Wlad. Lest we forget, other people did it before him and in more decisive fashion. My man Sanders holds the best win over Wlad. Sadly, that's not enough to claim that he now eclipses Lewis, or even that he makes the top 10 in boxing history.

    Wilder we all know about. Huge power, balanced by the fact that he can't box worth a lick. He's been embarrassed by guy after guy before finding the equaliser. He's been carefully guided through a bad era in the HW division and he ran out of luck against Fury. Fury is a world class heavyweight but to claim he eclipses Lewis? GTFOH.

    Lewis has a resume as long as my ... arm, and virtually every other name is somebody solid or world-level. He beat Vitali (who many including myself rate above Wlad H2H) when he himself was getting old. Nevermind the fact that the stronger, younger man was beating him up before that - Lewis dug deep and fought like a Spartan to rip the win out of the lion's jaws. Vitali is a guy that would crumple Wilder into a little ball and toss him into the waste bin.

    Here's my prediction: Longevity and a solid resume makes ATG's. Fury, as talented as he is, and I don't deny this, does not have the mental fortitude to become a great champion. He will get a few more wins before some bum embarrasses him because he trained on Guinness and pies, and then he will more or less retire. It's inevitable.

    As time goes on Fury's win over Wilder will lose its shine (because now Wilder is going to lose to other boxers, mark my words) and people will put the Wlad win in its proper place: a close points win over an old champion with mental issues of his own.

    I have Lewis at #3. Fury will do well to keep a spot in the lower tier of the top 10 heavies.
     
    BCS8, Jun 3, 2020
    BCS8, Jun 3, 2020
    #23
    Druida Prime, superman1692, Tankatron and 1 other person like this.
  9. fitzroy boy_iron mike

    fitzroy boy_iron mike Active Member Full Member

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    Fury nullified and schooled Wlad, who was coming into the fight as long reigning Lineal champ holding practically all the belts. The "duck" is contentious at best. We all know BBBofC didnt like Fury, nor did Hearn. Fury is a fighting man, he has shown he is not scared...

    Indeed. Sanders did beat Wlad. But was Wlad the long reigning Lineal champ when he did so?

    Wilder was long reigning WBC champ going into this and was concensus top three. Knocking everyone out, with the highest KO %. Sure, old school boxing fans knew the deal. But the bookies were at evens and this was a pick'em. Name me Len win which was similar.

    Re legacies- I have already made this point. Its not about legacies in this thread. And the Vitali win was barely a win. "Just look at the state of his face"- we all remember that. Len retired afterwards. Wanted no more of that.

    Wilder may well fade. And people may well discredit Wlad's accomplishments coming into the Fury fight. But both DETHRONEMENTS remain. I do not see similar wins on Lens. Can you propose any wins of a similar stature?
     
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    #24
  10. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    What you've done here is draft a very narrow and specific criteria which best fits a narrative which elevates Fury from his usual comparison with Lewis, which is that the latter is ranked much higher in the eyes of most boxing fans. Why stop there? Best single win? Best round? Best punch? Best ring walk (hands down Fury)?

    Well, any world champion should have way more than two wins considered to be impressive for them to be mentioned in the same conversation as ATGs. You could easily reframe what you say as: 'Fury only has two impressive wins' and the data would be exactly the same.

    And I'm not Fury hater. I also think H2H Lewis vs Fury would have been a great fight, with both having routes to victory.

    But until Fury has defended a title in the ring (all champs say it's harder to defend a title than win it) and until his third best win isn't Hammer or Chisora (take your pick) the comparisons with Lewis are always going to be unfavourable.

    Lewis is a lock-in ATG. Fury can't be an ATG using your criteria that he only has two wins of note.

    Let's work on this basis. Yes, it can be argued the Wlad and Wilder wins match all of Lewis'. But how many of Lewis' wins would be Fury's third best victory? Somewhere in the region of 12-13 is my estimate...
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
    DoubleJab666, Jun 3, 2020
    DoubleJab666, Jun 3, 2020
    #25
    MarkusFlorez99, Druida Prime, Glass City Cobra and 3 others like this.
  11. FuryFTW

    FuryFTW Active Member banned Full Member

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    No he doesn't holyfield was FINISHED he went 1-1-1 with JOHN RUIZ after lewis
     
    FuryFTW, Jun 3, 2020
    FuryFTW, Jun 3, 2020
    #26
    fitzroy boy_iron mike likes this.
  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Vitali > Wlad & Wilder
    Holyfield = Wlad
    Tua > Wilder
     
    George Crowcroft, Jun 3, 2020
    George Crowcroft, Jun 3, 2020
    #27
    northpaw likes this.
  13. fitzroy boy_iron mike

    fitzroy boy_iron mike Active Member Full Member

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    I understand all of your points. But they do not address the thread title here... Which of Lenny's wins come close to Fury's dethronements of Wlad and Wilder?
     
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    #28
  14. fitzroy boy_iron mike

    fitzroy boy_iron mike Active Member Full Member

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    I'm not talking about who was better than who. I talking about who's wins were better.

    Lenny scraped past Vitali, who was winning
    Holy was coming off wars with Bowe
    Tua may well have been better than Wilder- but that is not the point. Was Tua a long reigning WBC champ?

    So the questions still stands...
     
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    fitzroy boy_iron mike, Jun 3, 2020
    #29
    FuryFTW likes this.
  15. chico g

    chico g Let's watch some Sesame Street...lmao Full Member

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    Prime Vitali > Shot Wlad
     
    chico g, Jun 3, 2020
    chico g, Jun 3, 2020
    #30
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