Debating my top ten SMW list

I like seeing fireworks at press conferences personally, excites for the fight. Who's to say Liles wouldn't of froze on the big stage against a bad bad man? Personality matters

 

George Crowcroft,

Okay Georgie, that’s your personal preference. I’m a huge fan of Andre’s.

I wouldn’t say he has a great SMW resume though. Better than Roy’s, but Roy had the better singular win.

I think prime Roy was better, and he’d have beaten him in a H2H fight.

It’s not about having a free pass. He couldn’t fight Benn or Liles to try and become the undisputed champ.

They weren’t better than Toney. Yes, beating Collins would have enhanced his resume, but it doesn’t really affect his H2H standing. He moved up to LHW and destroyed Hill and Griffin, and he toyed with Reggie and Woods, as well as beating Harding, Hall and Tarver. And he did that whilst displaying the exact same skills. So although they weren’t SMW’s, beating those guys is very relevant when you’re rating someone on a H2H basis.

They were keep busy fights and mandatories.

Okay. I was only playing with you any way. But it’s up to you. Everyone has different criteria.

His resume does suffer, but IMHO, a prime version of Roy Jones was just a better fighter than Andre Ward and Joe Calzaghe. And I think he proved that over the course of his career.

And Toney was better than those guys who Roy didn’t fight.

Chad Dawson was a very good fighter. But he tried to burn muscle and he couldn’t do it. John Scully was training him where he had him doing demanding runs in the heat, but at one point he actually gained weight. I’ve spoken to John about it on another forum.

Yeah, the point was, you have to have the fights available.

Roy was fighting Paz whilst his handlers were trying to negotiate with Don King.

He was taking mandatories whilst trying to get a deal with Liles tied up.

Okay. Again, I rate H2H more than on a resume.

Joe Calzaghe had 44 fights at the weight. But nobody he beat was as good as Toney, most of his wins were against B and C class WBO guys, and Roy beat better fighters at a higher weight. The point being, they’re just statistics to me.

 

How did he not look impressive against Malinga?

He won every round and then knocked him out in the 6th round.

Malinga had recently given Benn and Eubank two tough fights.

How did he not look impressive against Thornton?

What are you talking about?

Nunn looked great before Toney started breaking him down to the body, which culminated in him knocking him out.

 

So do I. But we’re looking at their ability and who they beat.

 

He couldn't break through against Malinga until that sixth, it was mostly outside feinting and hitting the guard. What were you watching? It wasnt that impressive until that crazy punch.

Malinga was Benn's bogeyman and Eubank's mind was understandably elsewhere but he was still getting through from the start. He wasn't very good, certainly not in the class of a 92-93 Thornton.

 

I thought you were talking about wanting to see Liles vs Toney? You've lost me

 

Had Nunn not stood in front of Toney, like Jones didn't, he'd of won every round over 12. It was Arum who put pressure on him to try to be more fan-friendly.

 

Malinga fought very defensively for the first few rounds where he frustrated Roy. But it wasn’t competitive. Roy won every round before knocking him out.

Roy was one of only 2 guys that knocked him out.

 

Yeah, I’d have loved to have seen that. But here we’re rating fighters on their ability and who they fought.

Unless you’re claiming that someone ducked a guy due to a mental weakness etc, their personality is irrelevant.

 

The referee stopped it.

Today, the referee would've stepped in and stopped it in the 5th before the bell against Eubank after he was floored heavily for the first time in his career. A totally disinterested Eubank who looked loose and ragged from the first bell.

 

Possibly.

 

Umm ok. I find Liles boring because he had little personality in or out of the ring. And we don't know what he'd be like in the big arena against a genuinely bad man or great fighter, because he never really was. Would he freeze etc

 

Okay. We don’t know. It’s a fair point. But we know that he avenged his loss to Littles. We know that he fought Nunn. We know he fought after being knocked out by Mitchell.

If you want to debate his character and his mental strength, that’s fine. I’ve no issue with that all. I just wasn’t happy about you ranking them based on their personalities.

 

Even weighing in the eye test I can't see Toney ahead of Ward. Just can't see any SMW ever outclassing Ward like that. If we're going to be hypothetical.

 

It was in reference to a Toney fight. That dude was scarey. McClellan, Barkley and Benn were scarey. Tyson was scarey. And Toney was scarey. And Hearns was scarey. Julian Jackson was scarey. It takes a special fighter to get in with those guys and perform to your best. Liles I don't know, he was a background guy like Virgil Hill and Reggie Johnson in relatively small bouts.