Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

I agree and overall I also probably have Johnson as the first one. I'm quite high on longevity and Johnson was similar to Wladimir - he had some underwhelming results early on and his competition wasn't the best but he dominated for over decade.

I also agree that Schmeling lost a bit too many fights to have him higher. Had he beaten Baer or got a title fight against Braddock, he might have been top 10 HW ever. He lost to Baer (and Hamas) though and his prime wasn't long enough.

For sheer top wins, my list is:

1. Max Schmeling
2. James Jeffries
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Jack Johnson

For whole careers:

1. Jack Johnson
2. James Jeffries
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Max Schmeling
5. Bob Fitzsimmons

I have all of them inside my top 20.

 

little harsh on Sharkey, he fought extremely good opposition so it’s not surprising he would pick up a few losses. We’ll get to his top 5 soon should be fun. He does have some bad/strange losses. Not the most focused fighter by any stretch

 

What was missing in Sharkey?

Mainly that he was very mentally unstable.

He would often break down and cry hysterically when things didn't go as he wanted.

His main vice was fishing of all things.

He would often disappear to go fishing, when he should have been training.

 

I agree, Sharkey was tremendous fighter who at his best could beat most champions but he was very inconsistent. His top wins should be fun, he had very deep resume.

 

I have not given that much thought. Maybe when it's over.

Jeffries and Schmeling to me have the best resumes so far. Johnson, and Burns were rather poor. It's not always about who you beat, rather who you also lost to. Hart's resume was better than I thought and thanks to this thread, I changed my mind about Sharkey vs Walker.

 

So to get down to brass tacks, who good was Walker as a heavyweight?

Even though he probably deserved to win the Sharkey fight, it would be hard to argue that his heavyweight resume was better. Beating Jack Sharkey does not make you Jack Sharkey.

You could make the same argument for Risko, even though Walker won the series against Risko 2-1.

He tried to get a fight with Stribling, but it did not happen. Based upon his other results, I suspect that he would have bested Stribling.

I suspect that Uzcdun might have bested him, if Walker had not opened a vein over Uzcdun's eye, effectively blinding him. Uzcdun seemed to be edging the fight before that happened.

Overall he has a very impressive track record against Schmeling's other opponents.

 

Walker getting the decision over Sharkey, is an interesting what if.

If that had happened, he would have fought Schmeling for the title, in place of Sharkey.

Schmeling would have likely beaten Walker, and Sharkey would have been pushed back in the que for a title shot.

We would have then seen Carnera face off against Schmeling for the title, and I suspect that Schmeling would have posed a harder obstacle for him.

History could have been very different, if Walker had got the nod!

 

Final call for Schmeling. I must say his review was my favorite.

Up next is the much talked about Jack Sharkey who's resume is best described as diverse as it includes the best African Americans and Non USA foreign born fighters of the times.

 

Jack Sharkey

1. Tommy Loughran - He ended Loughran's incredible run in his prime and did it with stunning 3rd round KO.
2. Wills- Ended Wills long unbeaten stretch when he was still seen as the major threat of division.
3. Carnera- handled the giant easily when he was on a roll
4. Stribling - Solid win over solid contender
5. *Schmeling-for the title his biggest win- but he just doesn't impress me all that much in this fight and i thought Schmeling while not as dominant as i once believed -pretty much controlled the fight and deserved the win. If you believe Sharkey outright won this fight I believe it should be his #1 win.

HM Godfrey - good contender but lot of mystery around him seemed to come up short in his biggest fights, but always a rumor ciruclating that he was "handcuffed" to let opponent win.

Jack Delaney on paper is great win but believe he was drunk for bout if memory serves.

 

I got so preoccupied with writing about Schmeling's opponents, that I did not post my list.

I decided to leave Jack Sharkey out to avoid muddying the waters. The first Sharkey fight was the most important of his career, but it should be treated as a fluke. The second Sharkey fight should have been his second best win, but we have agreed to abide by questionable decisions here.

1. Joe Louis, no explanation needed.
2. Johny Risko, Risko was one of the best contenders never to hold the title, and Schmeling beat him at his summit.
3. Young Stribling, again a very important fight at the time.
4. Mickey Walker, I talked him a couple of places up. Would be in third place if the timing had been a bit better.
5. Steve Hamas II, a win over a very highly ranked contender.

 

Given that everybody gave Hart the win over Johnson, you should probably accept the dubious verdict.

 

He simply doesn't have Sharkey's depth, and he did not beat the same range of sizes and styles of heavyweight.

Shooting Jesse James, does not make you Jesse James.

I get the same impression of his fights with Risko.

 

Jack Sharkey

1. Loughran
2. Wills
3. Godfrey
4. Carnera
5. Schmeling, only because it was so controversial. Otherwise a win over Schmeling would be #1

 

Sharkey is going to be tricky, because he has so many good wins, and they will all have to be evaluated. You might wan to keep your powder dry on this one!"

 

Everyone voted for Louis 1st. , 2nd and 3rd place was tied, and that tie was broken for more 2nd place votes for Sharkey.

Schmeling top 5 wins

1. Louis 40 points
2. Sharkey 17 points
3. Stribling 17 points
4. Uzcudun 16 points
5. Walker 11 points

On to Jack Sharkey.