the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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10 : 8
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Ramirez TKO4
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Fun, fast-paced first round. Chapo comes out using his bob and weave, throws a range-finder right and to everyone's suprise he puts Ramirez on his arse. After, the pair trade for the remaining 3 minutes and I thought it was pretty evenly fought, so Chapo took it 10-8.

Second: Wow! Ramirez coming out, only to be forced back and hit with a beautiful uppercut which lead Rosario to throw about 30 punches before getting another KD. Ramirez showing lots of heart in there, but getting beaten up.

Awesome third: Ramirez battling back hard! Rosario looks like he's punched himself out a little but, and just looking to pick half-assed counters now. Ramirez going to the body well and throwing everything he has at Chapo, to no avail. Rosario comes alive near the mid-point and it becomes a lively affair. I thought Ramirez's pressure took it (he worked for all 3 minutes, Rosario fought in spurts).

Chapo coming back with some stinging right hands in the 4th, but he looks to be succumbing to José's bodywork. After more action, Ramirez's workrate getting the better of it, Rosario is spent and after hurting Chapo, Ramirez unloads everything he has and stops Rosario, standing.

 

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9 : 10
9 : 10
10 : 9
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10 : 9 (48/47)
9 : 10
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10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9* (

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Can't believe this is the first Randall fight I've ever seen. You'd have thought I'd have at least seen the Chavez fights. Yeah, I'm not doing the ****ing fraction scoring system. I ain't happening.

Pattern immerging in these Rosario fights; Edwin takes control when he forces the action but only fights in spurts. Not too dissimilar to Canelo actually, makes for some very hard-to-score rounds. This was a fun fight, slight momentum swings and good action. Very good win for Rosario, as it aged. Round 10 was the highlight IMO.

Randall was a pretty precise puncher and very strong, but his success here ultimately came from him being the (much) bigger guy IMO. Rosario definitely showed he was a better, more complete fighter. Better footwork, more versatile puncher and elite head-movement.

 

Armstrong vs Ambers.

I've watched this fight before and as I said I'd always dismissed Ambers as not anything special.

But with what I've been watching recently and a better look at the context of the era and the skill of those who fought in it, I must say I am now 100% sold on Ambers as a great LW.

I think he's a slightly lesser version of Canzoneri, although he did go on to beat Canzoneri a year later.

But the fight against Armstrong, the footage we have is insane. He tries to stick and move and Armstrong relentlessly walks him down, coming over the top with his power shots.

I read online earlier someone saying Armstrong was great because he threw 100 punches and didn't care what came back at him. That just isn't true, he bobbed and weaved like a prime Joe Frazier. Obviously we'll timed hooks can break through that defence and not many throw hooks as well timed as Lou Ambers.

The thing for me is most defensive fights clinch or wilt when a pressure fighter closes the distance.

Ambers doesn't do that, he trades hooks and exchanges in the inside with Armstrong.

Now as much as this made for a fan friendly fight, it just isn't how you'll beat Armstrong. There's a tiny handful of men who can beat him on the inside and a counter hooker isn't one of those.

From what we see, it's clear that Armstrong gets the better of the action. The question is about the fouls, obviously on a 10 point system they'd be even 9-9 rounds if Armstrong was winning the round and 10-8 if Ambers was.

Are the deductions justified, I don't know and from what I've read I don't think I ever will know.

But I am happy declaring Armstrong a better fighter than Ambers.

I was debating his placing in comparison with a prime Ross as well, but Barney answered that one for me.

Armstrong has so few "LW" fights. But weighing as a LW he beats Ambers and Ross, two of the greatest LW fighters in history.

Bonkers.

 

Ross vs McLarnin

It's only highlights but I'm going to give you a little tip here. Watch it side by side with Hoya vs Trinidad and ask yourself how much boxing has really moved on in the past 100 years.

Bear in mind Oscar did enough against a prime Mayweather to convince a lot of people he'd have beaten him in his prime. The same Mayweather who is the 1 or 2 P4P fighter of the past 20 years.

But anyways Ross takes on the role of Hiya. Jimmy takes on the role of Tito.

You have two classic boxer/punchers who set things up with their jab, but one is just a bit quicker. Both have comparable power, both have comparable chins, the only real difference is one man can get his punches off first.

Watch how similar the two fights unfold with the quicker man ambushing from range, the slower man getting frustrated and lashing out with big hooks.

Then remember, this is the same Barney Ross who was given all he could handle by Tony Canzoneri, the man a lot of "modernists" de value as a low hands high chin slugger.

I saw someone on here compare Ross with Hoya and I do think they're very similar fighters, but Ross has better conditioning and is more accurate for my money, not quite as dangerous with the hooks, but more technically sound.

For my money Ross would do to Hoya what Hoya did to Tito.

Which is the same thing he did to Jimmy. This is a great fight.

 

Ike Williams vs Enrique Bolanos

If Henry Armstrong is the LW answer to Joe Frazier, then Ike Williams is the LW answer to Sonny Liston.

The way he bears down behind that jab. What a great jab, not one with the intention of scoring points, but one with the intention of closing the distance so the hooks and uppercuts can start.

Williams is very technically sound in his approach and doesn't leave a whole lot of openings. I think it's the second fight I watched and it was actually an SD victory for Williams so beyond the footage Bolanos must have done some good work, because the fight looks fairly one sided to me.

What a sight that must have been seeing Ike behind his jab, knowing the flurry that was going to follow.

Just for measure I also watched the fight against Beau Jack. The what a sickening finish to the fight that was.

You have to remember as well Williams has a deceptive ko record because he fought an awful lot of fights up at WW. But his power is legit. He is legit.

 

Alberto Davila vs Frankie Duarte 1

Round 1. Davila springs out, immediately sharp, with Duarte a more sluggish contrast. What is apparent is how insanely well schooled Davila is, but also how much more physically imposing Duarte is in comparison. Still, Davila is the boss this round, and leads with a perfect left hook counter to punctuate the finish.

Davila again having his own way in round 2. Brilliant Boxing technique and well placed aggression, completely negating Duarte with fencing left handed leads. This is how a shorter man should box. Duarte landing some nice right hands late, but he is clearly lesser boxing wise to the energetic, buttery 'Pale Skin'.

A perfect baiting dip and a short, left hook shot to create an almost picturesque knockdown. Davila had been setting this up early, constantly dipping as he jabbed before now changing levels. Duarte not hurt but is stunned! Davila keeping to his fluid boxing, countering with screw shots, mixing offense and defense. Duarte working now, again towards the end, but he is being outclassed.

Duarte pushing forward now with sheer guts and getting Davila to the ropes. A turn around after round 3, but he is still constantly countered and outmaneuvered.

Duarte still getting closer now, but outfoxed comprehensively. I like how Davila smothers punches inside, where he should be in danger, with his forehead and forearms. Masterful skill is on show. Flow continues steadily - until Davila lands a vicious right hand off the hook to hurt Duarte. He is shook. Up he gets, but Davila seizes the day and ferociously puts him down again, with an explosive combination. Duarte again gets up - damn game - but Davila pounds him until the ref has no choice. The fight is stopped.

A vicious, stand out finish for Davila. Indeed a brilliant performance and an underrated win. It definitely solidified me as a fan.

 

Duilio Loi footage.

What to make of this man.

On one hand there's the reports of many contentious decisions in his home country.

But on the other he looks brilliant on film. A swarming close up defence, aggressive bob and weave, perpetual movement, very active, avoids most punches somehow on his way in, lands a a lot of what he throws.

On paper, the style shouldn't work imo, but clearly it does. Clearly it did.

Is it fair to assume he gets past any LWW jab in history? Once there is it fair to assume he out lands anyone he faces? Can we assume his chin stands up to the best 140 has to offer?

All hard questions to answer. But we do know that he did this in his prime and we do know his prime contained fights against one of the greatest LWW fighters in history.

I struggle to picture anyone at 140 beating him. I really do.

 

I spent today watching Carlos Ortiz but everytime i came on to post my wrote up I got distracted debating Mayweather vs De La Hoya at 140 pounds haha.

Anyways I watched 3 fights today.

I watched his fight against Joe Brown. I only gave Brown 2 rounds, the 1st and the 4th. The first 4 rounds were quite tentative and were a bit of a chess match. If anything Brown forced the pace more and got through with some beautiful right hands. But from the 5th onwards Ortiz did the unthinkable, he managed to time the jab of Brown and actually beat him to the punch. What you see for the remaining ten rounds is a masterclass in jabbing for Brown.

Then it was the 2nd fight against Elorde, on of the best out boxers and ambush attackers we see him outbox him from range and more importantly we see him win the majority of the inside exchanges. Ultimately he breaks Elorde down scoring a definitive knockout.

I then watched him in the rubber match against Laguna, by this point he's, imo, old and a bit past his best. He's not as quick as he once was, but he manages to surpass the counter punching of a prime Laguna and schools him in terms of punch timing.

What an absolute master boxer this man was. Able to counter on the back and the front foot. One of the best jabs in history and is not scared to mix it up on the inside.

I was actually that impressed with him I looked over his record again. Everyone who beat him in his prime, he also beat. But not just that, everyone who beat him in his prime, he arguably won the fights against.

I was reading up on the fights with Loi and Locche, the record doesn't tell the whole tale there. Maybe one day I'll get to watch them for myself and judge, but based on what I've seen I'm happy siding with an air of caution about each and every one of his losses.

I remember years and years ago I saw this guy was from the 60s and was Puerto Rican and just assumed he was some face first brawler.

I need to go back in time and slap myself round the head.

This guy is one of the best boxers in history. Period.

 

Yeah I've read things about them, apparently Loi never beat Ortiz.

 

Have you been going through my watchlist? We're pretty much following the same set of fights except you're way ahead of me

 

Haha lightweight and light welterweight greats.

 

Locche vs Fuji and Hernandez.

Locche is an absolute master when he's fighting at his own pace. And he was a master at dictating that pace.

All out pressure won't work against him as he's too sharp with his pin point counters so it takes more than that to disrupt him.

He can rope a dope all day firing back with hooks and uppercuts and his power is enough, imo, to discourage most fighters.

But set that pressure up behind a consistent jab, back him up, work the body and reset, that will work against him.

I believe that's what Ortiz did to beat him and I think a small handful would manage the same.

He looks amazing against Fuji though.

 

Jeff Fenech W12 Marcos Villasana

Terrific performance from Fenech; his grit in fighting as well as he did with two busted hands speaks volumes about his courage and resolve. This wasn't the most interesting fight to score, as I had Fenech winning nearly every round. It wasn't because Villasana wasn't doing any fighting. He threw a lot of himself into this effort, but he was downright ponderous and slow compared to the whirling dervish in front of him.

Fenech darted in and out, using grappling techniques, shoving with his shoulders, pushing off with his arms, anything to put the more predictable and stationary Villasana back on his heels. He never hurt Villasana ( did anybody ever?) but Fenech made him look downright pedestrian and inactive with his constant moving and punching. Interestingly, Fenech beat a consummate brawler by simply outbrawling him. It was brawling mixed with finely-honed skills mind you; despite its initially artless appearance, Fenech did an excellent job of coming inside to take the play away from Villasana. The Mexican may be a brawler but he's lanky with very long arms, and his offense therefore is all from the outside in, his shots with a more pronounced arc. Fenech mauls and darts inside that arc and finds a home there to wreak havoc. It works round after round. I have the first round even, and perhaps because I'm trying hard to find something to give Marcos I award him the 10th as well but that's all. The rest all go to Fenech, as hard won as they all are. Fenech breaks both hands in the fight but only slackens the pace in the last third of the fight, when he dances around a bit to give his paws a rest.

119-110 Fenech, if the math in my head is correct.