Vitali Klitschko vs Evander Holyfield

At the moment, I'd only dispute Thomas as having been in the Top-5. He was most likely displaced from the Number-5 spot, before facing Holyfield, by a combination of his inactivity since Tyson and the activity of other Fighters, in and around the Ring Top-10, during the same period.

In any event, however, Thomas was still ranked in the Ring Magazine's Top-10, at the time he and Holyfield met.

 

Two all time terrific chins .. the prime Evander may edge him by a decision .. more punch output but a very tough distance fight ..

 

Which of the two had PED issues as a professional? That wold be the guy guilty of low blows and headbutts.

By the way I hope you liked the post #230 when I used your own data. 3-6 vs the best five he fought.

"On February 28, 2007, Holyfield was anonymously linked to Applied Pharmacy Services, a pharmacy in Alabama that was under investigation for supplying athletes with illegal steroids and human growth hormone (HGH). He denied ever using performance enhancers."

" Larry Holmes made it clear before the Holmes v Holyfield fight that he knew that Evander was a steroid user"

[url]https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Holyfields-legacy-appear-largely-untainted-by-his-steroid-use-Is-that-not-enough-to-mark-him-as-a-lesser-warrior-than-those-who-had-not-used-such-substances[/url]

Didn't he put on 40lbs of muscle in less than 5 months upon becoming a heavyweight or something close to it?

 

This point doesn't mean much as Wlad was often ranked #1 while Vitali was active, not allowing much room for others.

You are missing some Dino. Adamek was ranked #3. Rodrigues if he was ranked #3 was severely over rated.

What's Holyfield record vs the best five he fought? Try 3-6.


5 Best Ranked opponents Holyfield fought

Lewis 0-1-1
Bowe 1-2
Moorer 1-1
Byrd 0-1
Ruiz 1-1-1

Holyfield's official record vs the best five Ring Magazine ranked opponents he fought: 3 Wins, 6 Losses and 1 very lucky draw! It would be 3-7 unless you " think " Holyfield earned a draw vs Lewis. A real tail kicker, huh?

 

K , Vitali has 3. I missed Adamek. Holy still has 8... Eight is better than 3.

Beating Tyson , Holmes , Foreman and Bowe is also better than anybody Vitali beat.

I believe Prime 92 Holy would easily beat 03 Lewis. I don't even think that match would be a contest after seeing how a faded 99 Holy did against peak/prime Lewis.

Holyfield , if you can see past the hatred , was a far more complete fighter than Vitali. He has a better record and ranks way higher on the ATG lists.

 

Dude, I showed you his record vs the best five he fought. 3-6. Should be 3-7. Are you going to deny that? Lol. He's a PED abuser who picked some real soft touches or old for title defenses. Easy facts, AND he didn't look good vs them at times.

Judging how Holy won just one match of five vs Bowe and Lewis, he's losing to Vitali. More complete and better heavyweight are two very different things. Holy was a great cruiser who moved up to heavy with PED's. Take them away, where is he?

 

Much as the comparison of ledgers is interesting and can be useful for helping gauge a fantasy head-to-head matchup, the numbers can never tell the whole story. One still needs to interpret the numbers in the context of individual bouts that the fighters in question were involved in.

The problem is that Vitali has neither a defining win - nor a contest of any type against an opponent even remotely comparable to a prime Holyfield.

Holyfield has Bowe and Tyson as defining wins. Even his losing efforts against Lewis, provide us with much more to work with, in terms of how he would fair against super-heavies, in general.

I'd suggest that, in order to think Vitali has a good chance of beating the best version of Holyfield, you have to think Vitali was capable of performing as well as or better than Lewis and Bowe at their respective bests.

However, to my mind, there is neither anything on paper nor on film, which supports this belief.

 

Incredible resume. Wins include Bowe,Tyson, Moorer, Holmes, Foreman, Douglas, Mercer, Rahman. Add to that the draw with Lewis. In his prime, he lost two close decisions in great efforts (defeats he later avenged).

Vitali's resume has no defining wins at all. Best win is against a poorly conditioned, semi retired and 37 or 38 year old Sanders. Don't forget his two defeats: one against the light hitting Byrd and one against past prime and not in top shape Lewis. One may very well argue that those two were the best opponents Vitali fought. And needless to say that he never avenged those defeats

 

BRILLIANT POST.

 

What do you men no defining wins? He took 4 years off from the ring, came back with no warm up fights and won his belt back from Sam Peter who was then ranked #1 in the world and badly beat him. Who in boxing has done that.? Give me some names and try not to avoid this question.

Vitali did not need to make his name on past their best Bowe, Holyfield and Tyson, all of whom he would have pounded in from 2000-2009, and you know it. He showed his quality vs Lewis, a fighter who never lost a decision and was in the lead vs hi doing far better than Holyfield ever did.

Your premise on "Vitali has a good chance of beating the best version of Holyfield, you have to think Vitali was capable of performing as well as or better than Lewis and Bowe at their respective bests :" Is false. Moorer beat Holyfield easily. Ruiz beat him. TONEY beat him. Donald beat him ( a fighter Vitali stopped ) he looked awful vs Bean a fighter Vitali pounded. What might you say now?

The truth is Holyfield had many uneven performances in his prime. And many excuses.

 

You must be the most stubborn poster on this board.You are constantly misstating the facts. Constantly ignoring Mike Tyson as one of Holyfield's notable wins.Your statement that Moorer beat Holyfield easily is factually incorrect. This was a MD. It was actually a very close fight which I doubt you even watched.
You keep listing fighters like Toney and Donald who beat Evander way past his prime.Just disingenious on your part. You have been educated by numerous posters on numerous points, yet you keep on going with the same nonsense.

 

No-no, If you read I was using Mcvey's data and I tiped him by saying it had some mistakes Holyfield beat the post Prison Tyson, who was not nearly as good as the pre-prison Tyson. You should know that.

Getting KO'd by a middle weight is a stain. Vitali was an older fighter too, he doesn't need excuses.

If you were honest, you'd say Vitali for sure would have beaten Byrd without the shoulder tear, and was in the lead vs Lewis who was gassing until the ring doctor called it on a cut. Never, ever have I heard that from you. That's being disingenuous.

Larry Donald was 37 when he easily outpointed Holyfield. Vitali beat Donald cleanly when he Donald was 35. If you want to use another opponent in common, who did better vs Vaughn Bean? An answer is requested unless you think Holyfield was too past it for Bean.

The facts are :

1 ) Vitali was never behind vs any professional after three rounds on the card. Which other heavyweight can claim that? How about NONE.
2 ) He has one of the best KO ratios in division history
3 ) He was never floored by a punch
4 ) He came back at an older age, out 4 years from boxing with no warn up fights, and destroyed the #1 contender for his belt.
5 ) First ballot hall of fame enshrined, and top vote getter in his class

Holyfield, even in his prime had quite a few shaky performances.

Cooper ( Floored ) , Holmes ( cut ) , Moorer ( Cut and cleanly beaten ) , and Bean ( looked awful in victory ) to name four. FACTS. Now please tell me one shaky performance Vitali had? If you can't then a point was proven.

 

That's an error. Peter was #2 in 2008. He was also washed up and over weight.

Who in boxing has done this , quit against a guy that was brought in on a weeks notice. Take a passing of the torch fight against a faded HW of the previous era and not be good enough to take the torch?
Vitali took the greatness test and failed it. Simple as that!

 

The draw with Lewis was a total robbery, Lewis clearly won both fights

 

It's a good thing your opinion hardly counts. Vitali was a first-ballot hall of fame enshrine and the lead vote-getter in his class. Calling this a failure underscores quite a bit about you.

While I'm not saying Holyfield deserves a spot among the greats, His PED issues as a professional, loss to a blown up middleweight, going 1-1-1 vs Ruiz and un-even performances is something you won't find on Vitali's resume.

Only a shoulder injury that required surgery and a doctor stopping a fight on cuts define his losses. He was well in the lead in both matches vs. Lewis, and Byrd, that much is clear. Lewis who needed re-matches vs. McCall and Rahman for his resume, didn't give one to Vitali. He said he would. It was a clear duck as Lewis was trying to make other fights with Johnson and Jones. Once the WBC ordered the re-match, we saw the truth. Lewis knew and his large ego knew he wasn't winning a re-match.