Jack Dempsey vs Tony Tucker?

So 1920s and 1930s should be regarded higher than modern boxing right?

 

Lots of hearsay, rumors and completely falsehoods. I’ve read Dempsey’s autobiography cover to cover on many occasions and have it sitting on my shelf right now. Nowhere does he say that the Fitzsimmons bit was ruse to give the appearance of making the fight without actually doing it. I have no idea where in that book you could have possibly got that idea but according to Dempsey’s autobiography it was the exact opposite. Dempsey explains thoroughly how Fitzsimmons and the two fighters went through with making the fight and even had tickets printed up. It was Floyd who became uncooperative and failed to produce the prefight money he had promised. Instead he gave him a bounced check.

The idea that Dempsey would publicly accept the fight multiple times, sign contracts, print up thousands of tickets, and take a check under contract to fight Wills all as an elaborate plan to duck Wills is insanely far fetched. Wills looks boring on film and even Ray Charles could see that Dempsey would have absolutely slaughtered him inside 3 rounds. Leagues difference in skill and all around ability between the two fighters.

 

Tucker Ud, with the power of the jheri curl helping out.

 

Hi klompton, I am curious as to how good Wills was. Are there any good newspaper accounts of him?

I am not sure if I believe the claims of him being a big slow fighter. Some of the boxing writers in the day were prejudiced, therefore, they may have described Wills as slow.

Are there any good natural sources on Wills?

 

So, you go to Dempsey's autobiography for an objective source?

And Dempsey would slaughter Wills in 3 but he couldn't stop Gibbons in 12? Did it ever occur to you that we only have film of Wills as an aged fighter past his prime?

 

Yes. I’d say Dempsey is pretty honest about what happened. You consider Fulton’s word to be pretty objective when it comes to the Dempsey fight even though he got blasted in 30 seconds.

The Gibbons fight isn’t really an indicator of how Wills would do considering they share almost 0 similarities. Gibbons has atg level skills even into the later stages of his career. Wills on the other hand looked like ass against Firpo. He wasn’t that far over to hill where that’s excusable. Even Louis showed skill in his last fights.

 

I wish I had your faith in my fellow man.

You are correct. Gibbons and Wills have zero similarities.

Wills has a great resume at heavyweight with multiple victories over Langford, Jeanette, McVea, Clark and John Lester Johnson as well as wins over Firpo, Fulton, Denver Ed Martin, Gunboat Smith...

At heavyweight, Tommy beat a dying Miske and some assorted ham and eggers.

 

Key word you keep saying “at heavyweight” because Gibbons has a great resume outside of the heavyweight division. During his time period it was common to see light heavyweights move up and fight at heavyweight because most heavyweights were in the 180s-190s. Not that big of a stretch from 175.

If theyre an atg fighting 175 lbrs then they still possess atg skill fighting guys 10-15 lbs above that. It doesn’t just magically disappear. In many cases like Greb the heavier opponents were at a disadvantage because of the decreased speed and mobility.

 

Dempsey wins.
He would swarm all over Tucker.

 

Louis doesn't beat any. He was great for his era, but he doesn't stand a chance against guys like Holmes, Bowe, Liston, Tyson, Lewis, etc.

 

Louis is arguably the best HW ever, he stands a chance against anyone.

 

Given his achievements, Louis is arguably competing for the title of "the greatest" with Ali, but he's nowhere near "the best".

 

This is a tough one for me.

In a one off fantasy bout I really think Tucker can cause Dempsey all sorts of problems and stay at range without too much issue.

But then I think, Dempsey was the champion of the world, if Tucker had been in his era and was a rising contender (and Dempsey ignored the colour line) who had secured a title shot, does he really have enough to wrestle the championship away and put forth his claim as the best heavyweight in the world?

Any time between 1920 and 1923, do we really think Tucker enters the ring as challenger and exits as champion? I think it much more likely that Dempsey defends his belt successfully, probably on points.

But then again Jack never risks his belt against someone like Tucker so the idea is moot.

Gun to my head though, I'm saying Dempsey makes a successful title defence.

 

But why? He beat many great fighters and he looks phenomenal on film.

 

The guys he beat were great for that era, they wouldn't be great in other eras.
And he looks phenomenal cause very few of his opponents were good/great boxers.
I'm no fan of Ali, but Ali would dance circles around Louis.
Liston would chop Louis's head off.
SHW's like the Klitschko's, Lewis and Bowe would embarrass and KO him.
And Tyson would KO him in round 1.