Was Tim Witherspoon a top 30 heavyweight ?

You must have never seen latter-day Toney. Epic fun-bags.

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Langford yes.

I’m not a Baer guy. No to Ray and Jackson.

Jeanette, Fitz and McVey. Idk. I don’t like lumping in ancient fighters with recent ones.

 

Witherspoon was one of the best contenders in the history of the division.

You could just about make the case for top 30, but I probably wouldn't.

 

I have him in my top 30.

 

Hard to say he wasn't a top 30 guy in terms of h2h at his best. He had some very competitive bouts with Just about every big name in the 80's (too bad we didn't get the Tyson fight). In terms of resume he was a bit of an underachiever, but i say that in spite of him being a 2x champ with several good wins. That's how good he was. Could have been an atg but fell victim to the typical "fought way longer than he should have" and "didn't give it his all in his prime".

 

To me that fight was the best example of Championship heart I've ever seen in the division (though the Holmes-Norton and Holyfield-Bowe fights were like that, too...I'm sure I'm forgetting many, forgive).

Larry was out on his feet at more than one point in the 9th. The fact that he not only fought back, but effectively kept Tim off him, really took a sensational amount of courage imo.

 

Tim is probably top 30. He was a fine heavyweight who imo would have given Iron Mike a much tougher fight than Frazier, Berbick, or Williams...and of course Holmes, though Larry was 5 years past his prime.

I think the Smith ko was a fluke btw. I don't think Tim's mind was really on the fight (though he was definitely trying, the video is evidence). I don't think the Tim who fought Holmes would have been taken out early by Mike.

 

I thought also it was very courageous of Larry after enduring such punishment dished out by Witherspoon in that 1983 battle.

 

Completely disagree with the bolded. At his best and in top shape both Holmes and Thomas beat him. Sure the Holmes fight was somewhat disputed but Holmes was starting to age a bit. There are plenty of heavyweights he would never beat best for best.

Around the 30-40 mark would be close to the money per the thread tho.

 

I would slightly disagree. Holmes was starting to fade a bit but Witherspoon was very green, and Holmes didn't want a rematch.

I do agree that Witherspoon does not beat certain guys like Ali, Foreman etc. even at his best. But i would give him a good shot vs Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, Wladamir etc. He would be a underdog vs these guys but would have more than a decent chance.

Overall, he is top 30 for me. I wonder if he wasn't blacklisted and if he had a chance to fight the younger versions of Holy, Lewis, Bowe etc. he might have beaten them, and his legacy would have been massively enhanced by one win vs any of those guys.

 

Witherspoon was a bit green but so many put that fight forward as his best ever effort (particularly big Holmes fans) so it's very hard to say he wasn't at his best there.

I don't like his chances against any of the guys you named but it's all opinion of course. I have no problem with ayone putting Tim around the 30 mark. He's around that somewhere.

 

John L. Sullivan
Peter Jackson
Bob Fitzsimmons
James Jeffries
Jack Johnson
Sam Langford
Jack Dempsey
Harry Wills
Jack Sharkey
Max Schmeling
Max Baer
Joe Louis
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Ingemar Johannson
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Ken Norton
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Michael Moorer
Lennox Lewis
Vitali Klitchsko
Wladimir Klitchsko
Alexander Povetkin
Tyson Fury
Anthony Joshua

That's already over 30. You could have some names below him, but then there are fighters who also have case over hin like Maher, Corbett, Burns, Jeannette, McVea, Carnera, Ray, Quarry, Bonavena, Spinks, Wilder and others.

 

H2h maybe yes but legacy in history i am not sure

 

I think Witherspoon has a case for Top-30, but it's based almost entirely on a roughly four and a half year period, during the ’80s.

From and including Snipes, in June 1982, to his KO1 Loss to Smith (2), by the end of 1986, Witherspoon had had 14 bouts, going 11-3-0. This included 10 matches against Ring-Rated opponents (and 2 World Titleholders), with whom he went 7-3-0.

Of the 14 matches, 6 were World Title fights, in which he went 3-3-0. The mixed results from these contests, nonetheless, made Witherspoon a two-time World Champion.


I could be wrong and I am genuinely not sure whether the above makes him a shoo-in for the Top-30 or not - but, I'll take a punt on that kind of a schedule, being unmatched by many heavyweights we might typically see placed in the 21 to 30 range.

 

I don't recall doing a top 30 at HW, I've done 25 (iirc) but nothing more.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. George Foreman
6. Wladimir Klitschko
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Sonny Liston

11. Jack Johnson
12. Mike Tyson
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Riddick Bowe
15. Floyd Patterson
16. James J Jeffries
17. Jack Dempsey
18. Ken Norton
19. Max Schmeling
20. Max Baer

21. Chris Byrd
22. Jersey Joe Walcott
23. Jerry Quarry
24. Jack Sharkey
25. Harry Wills
26. Vitali Klitschko
27. Ingo Johansson
28. Bob Fitzsimmons
29. Anthony Joshua
30. Alexander Povetkin

I'd also probably put Michael Moorer above Terrible Tim. Ron Lyle, Tyson Fury, Ike Ibeabuci and David Tua too.

I'd definitely say Sullivan is greater, but I don't know anywhere near enough about him or his résumé to rank him.