1952 Rocky Marciano vs 1960 Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Sep 7, 2010.


  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    henry cooper? joe louis? sonny liston? im not saying either of those things. i think you are trying to read between the lines a bit too much. what part of "i think williams was a good and exciting contender" dont you understand?

    old fogey says he dosnt remember williams being raved about as championship material, and from what i have veiwed and read of the time i agree with him.
     
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Excellent synopsis, Dr. Prince. We can tell clearly from his cranial measurements. Pass the forceps.
     
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  3. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    :happy

    I am a genius and an innovator of my practice.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm not reading between the lines at all. I'm asking you about a single specific point you've made which you say summarises your entire position:


    What on earth does this mean?
     
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    old fogey said nobody was that excited at the time about wiliams. I say i agree with him since the evidence is there that he was exciting, found his level then faded away without making too great an impresion on the history of the sport like any other chalengers who come and go.

    for wiliams to reamerge years later as a posible victor over ATG's (after being overlooked by the fans who remembered him) I can only asume that with hindsight new fans got re-excited about wiliams potential.
    I SAY in light of his "shining moment" being knocked out by liston "why wiliams and not another contender who gave a champion an exciting but short fight".
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The answer is very obviously that Williams has made an impression on film that these other contenders who were in short fights did not manage. How could it be anything else? It certainly makes more sense than Tyson making people overate Liston making people overate Williams (For being knocked out).

    Not even in a playground. Certainly not here.
     
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    perhaps. however, i'm curious to why williams did not make the same impresion on mainstream fightfans at the time like old fogey?

    did they not have acess to the films we have today when they were aired on live tv? or is it because they did not scruitinise them through the eyes of youngsters used to whatching bigger heavyweights from the modern era? do these veiwpoints outrank the guys in suits and hats who sat there whatching live?
     
  8. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In fairness, I never took a poll, and they are probably many fans who were very impressed with him.

    Williams did not appear on national TV that much, and in the fights I saw, against Curley Lee, an ordinary fighter who was a last minute sub for Sonny Liston and made a close fight of it to the 10th, and Billy Daniels twice, Williams just didn't impress me that much. He certainly was a fine fighter and a fairly heavy puncher, but his ko victims for the most part were not top men except for a greenish Terrell.
     
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    :goodyes i know he is well thought of by some of those who remembered him. his power was never in dispute. there is no doubt wiliams was dangerous at a level but like you say much of his victims were of the outmatched varitaty in his hometown. of the fights he won I think williams TKO win over metieff was impresive, Alex was knocked down 8 times when the argentine was still tough.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I got excited over Mauriello when he beat up Marlon Brando, to be fair though, he did have Tony Galento, and Lee J Cobb helping him.:good
     
  11. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    We never talk about Mauriello, but he was probably boxing's greatest prodigy. He fought Gus Lesnevich for the lightheavy title when 17 years 10 months old, losing by a disputed split decision. At 18 he drew with Bob Pastor and lost a tight split decision to Jimmy Bivins. He had already banked a 1 round ko over Steve Belloise. Before he was 20, he had defeated Lou Nova and Lee Savold.

    He never seemed to progress much beyond this level, though.
     
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  12. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lee J Cobb--Cobb's interesting. He was born in 1911. A while back I watched a Hopalong Cassidy film from 1936 in which Cobb appeared. Cobb was just starting out and was 25. He was already bald and looked about fifty playing a railroad president. He played William Holden's father in GOLDEN BOY in 1939.
     
  13. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Marciano would probably knock him out in the same way he did to Rex Layne, just it would cap off a great war.
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    thats a prety good level just outside linear championship level, posibly belt holder level in another era.
     
  15. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    That's my Mcvey. Always rooting for Rocky!