the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Oscar De La Hoya vs John John Molina

This is, imo, the first decent opponent Oscar faced.

He looks very raw and scrappy, but quick and physically imposing. Tbh that's how I currently see him below 147.

Those first 5 years of his career he was far from the finished article imo.

I often think that people try to extrapolate how good Oscar would be based on his exploits at WW and LMW and the way he over matched his opponents at 135 and 140.

I also often think when Pea left the LW division behind, there was an absence of greatness in the LW divisions.

But I'm here to review that perception.

So back to the matter at hand.

Oscar wins this fight fairly handily, in fact I stopped scoring after the first because the pattern of the fight was set. But launched into sloppy ambush attack, more often then not Oscar came off on top.

Not hugely impressive given the fights I've been watching lately, certainly nothing screams out H2H beast yet, but as j said, this was his first decent opponent imo.

 

De La Hoya vs Ruelas, Hernandez and Leija

The Ruelas fight is just a shoot out that Oscar wins, doesn't impress me that much other than in showing the world his power is real.

The Hernandez fight is a great performance and I feel he's made a big improvement.

He shows really good poise and patience and the beginnings of that jab, ambush, reset tactic. The only real issue is that the opponent is a good SFW far from a great LW. The performance is very dominant and Hernandez actually does well, just not as good as Oscar. Then Hernandez quits.

Leija again shows the same Oscar but this time the hooks are heavy enough to hurt Leija, but the stoppage looks a bit dubious to me.

All in all Oscar as a LW is decent and pretty much how I remember him, but he doesn't beat good enough people for me to be wowed by his skills. I mean the best win anywhere near this weight class is a shot Chavez, after that we've got a blown up Hernandez. Just not enough evidence, imo of him being a great LW fighter.

Sorry Oscar as a LW you don't cut the mustard.

 

Bit harsh but I know what you mean. I remember The Ring a bit too eager to make DLH seem like the second coming of Duran after he crushed Rafael Ruelas but he just didn't stick around long enough to prove that much. His win after Genaro Hernandez (RIP) was impressive though.

 

I just feel at these lower weights all he has going for him are his physicality. There's boxers with better speed, better footwork, better engine, better technique, better combinations.

Even at LWW, I just don't see him as that great a fighter.

WW and LMW he's an exceptionally good fighter, but imo fall short of any top ten lists.

 

Well, he had the competition to prove himself more at WW. He didn't stick around long enough at LWW in particular to prove too much. I think he could have established himself well there, particularly with a win over Tszyu.

The physical advantages he enjoyed at 135 and 140 were not the same at 147 and the guys he faced (Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley) were top drawer opposition so that made a difference.

Had he come out of that lot unbeaten he'd definitely be a consideration for a top 10 spot at WW. But he didn't really convince in any of his wins against those guys and lost to two of them.

 

Carlos Zarate v Rodolfo Martinez

Good fight and a fitting coronation for a future great champion against a very fine one who did his best to hold on to the title but was ultimately overwhelmed by the power and precision of Zarate's punches.

The 8th round was the standout and also Martinez's last stand as champion.

1 10-10 (cagey opener)
2 10-9
3 9-10 (Zarate continued his good work from the previous round starting well early but Martinez switched to southpaw and rocked Zarate)
4 10-9
5 10-8 (Big Zarate round as he puts Martinez through the ropes and has him in dire straits for much of the rest of the round)
6 10-9 (Zarate in full control)
7 9-10 (Martinez's best round since the 3rd)
8 10-10 (terrific round. Martinez switch hitting has some success before it looks like Zarate is going to get back on top but they trade evenly after that.)
(78-75)
9 Zarate KO Martinez

 

That's the problem. He never beat a top class opponent clearly. I mean when he was WW champ his top 3 competition were Quartey, Tito and Pea. He arguably went 0-3 against them.

Then when they all left the division the next guy was Shane and he beat him clearly.

It's weird, WW should have been his zenith, instead it was a mix of blow out over matched opposition and scrape by world class fighter.

LMW was his best showing imo, his size had levelled out, he no longer had to drain himself and he could use his speed as an advantage in boxing terms rather than athletic terms.

 

Carlos Zarate v Alfonso Zamora

Zarate proves his greatness in one of the best matchups of that decade.

RBR and comments below.

1 9-10
(Wild first round in more ways than one. Guy runs into the run and then is hauled out by the cops. That sparks warfare in the ring with Zamora rocking Zarate a couple of times. Bombs away!)
2 9-10
(Zamora landing the bigger shots but Zarate taking them better now. Still Zamora's round though)
3 10-8
(Zarate hangs tough under Zamora's continued onslaught then drops a bomb and has Zamora on **** street, dropping him and nearly finishing him before the bell comes to Alfonso's rescue)
(28-28)
4 Zarate TKO Zamora
(Zarate doesn't give Zamora any chance to get a foothold back in the fight, dropping him twice quickly, the second conclusively before Zamora's corner throws in the towel and all hell breaks loose again with crowd members and cops flooding the ring. God I love the 70s!)

 

Carlos Zarate v Alberto Davila

Top quality matchup between a champion at the peak of his powers and a challenger who would remain a top contender and fixture of world title fights for much of the next ten years.

Davila looked at least half a weight division smaller and was physically over matched here but did very well for the first 5 rounds before those natural advantages Zarate had (height, reach and power) started to take their toll. With the knockdown taking place just before the inspection by the doctor, the writing was on the wall for Davila but he gave notice here that he was a worthy challenger.

It's not surprising after this kind of performance that many people thought Zarate was the best fighter in the game. He oozed confidence and was looking for bigger fish to fry with his challenge of Wilfredo Gomez up at super bantamweight.

1 10-10 (not much in it)
2 10-9 (close)
3 9-10
(Davila showing an excellent radar, slipping punches deftly and countering beautifully)
4 9-10
(close. Some really good action as Zarate looks like he's getting on top before Davila comes back well to just about edge it. Quality stuff from both fighters)
5 10-9
(Zatate takes this one with the better work overall, although Davila again has some success at the end of the round)
6 10-9
(Źarate starting to take control now)
7 10-9
(some good exchanges but Davila can't break Zarate's flow now)
(68-66)
8 Zarate TKO Davila
(Davila down and then the ref gets the ringside doctor to inspect the cuts near Davila's eye and waves it off.)

 

Wilfredo Gomez v Juan Meza

Decent little scrap as Meza puts up a spirited challenge to Gomez's longstanding reign as super bantamweight king but gets outgunned and overwhelmed.

Some nice exchanges but Gomez just had too much and Meza acknowledged it in his reaction when the ref stepped in while he was still on his feet but shipping punches.

1 9-10 (close)
2 10-9
3 10-9
4 10-9 (good exchanges)
5 10-9 (Gomez looking in more of a hurry to get Meza out of there now)
(49-46)
6 Gomez TKO Meza

 

I've spent the night watching Kostya Tszyu fights.

He was such an amazing talent. An ATG jab and that timed counter punch style of Arguello.

Tszyu is actually what Arguello should have been like in an ideal world: imagine an Arguello who's consistent with the jab, has quick feet and is big enough to fight 140 pound fighters.

It might be the litre of Grants I've had, but I've loved these fights and I do think Zoo is an absolute ATG at 140.

I think he would have timed Floyd and potentially stopped him, or at the very least, timed him enough to pin him against the ropes and unleash hooks, over and over again.

And yes I totally buy the anaemia/promotional excuse for the Phillips fights.

Zoo is a legend.

 

I had it a bit closer. Here is what I wrote when I scored it:

I loved watching Davila. Such beautiful combinations. I think he made a tactical error with the slow first two rounds. Zarate was a slow starter and that was the time to jump on him. Not crazily, but to start firing those pinpoint combos through Zarate's guard when he was still loosening up. Oh, well, easy for me to say.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Davila
Round 3: 10-9 Davila
Round 4: 10-9 Davila
Round 5: 10-9 Zarate
Round 6: 10-9 Zarate
Round 7: 10-9 Zarate
Round 8: Fight stopped by ringside physician after Davila rose from a knockdown with a severe cut.

Total (through 7 completed rounds): 67-67 Even

The fight had really swung towards Zarate and the end looked inevitable. But one great effort by Davila against a great and feared champ.

 

I always wondered how this one would have gone if Davila had big power, or the like. Oh well, 'what if', right?

 

Yeah, skill wise they were a very even match but Zarate just had too many natural advantages for Davila to overcome.

 

Holiday vs Mosley.

I saw this as a fight of 3 thirds.

First 4 rounds, Mosley had the energy and workrate to stop Holiday from doing anything effectively.

Next 4 rounds, Mosley slowed right down, Holiday was able to get his rhythm going and take over the fight.

Last 4 Mosley got a second wind and again toom over with his work rate.

Mosley, like Oscar has an unfair reputation as a monstrous LW and it isn't warranted. He is very raw, scrappy and if you talk about his assets you talk purely about physicality, his speed, his power and his chin. He doesn't hade the best jab, his accuracy is very questionable and I don't think he puts his shots together too well.

H2H beast, no.