1952 Rocky Marciano vs 1960 Cleveland Williams

Terrell was knocked down only by three men:
1) Cleveland Williams floored him once in the first fight, and again in the second, but it was ruled a slip
2) Thad Spencer like you said
3) Jeff Merritt

 

"Manuel Ramos climbed into the top heavyweight ranks with an indecisive 10 round decision Saturday night over former WBA champion Ernie Terrell. Terrell appeared to be getting the better of Ramos for most of the fight but was apparently penalized for his charging-bull tactics. Terrell was warned repeatedly against excessive clinching, twice for butting and once for using a wrestling style arm-lock on Ramos. As long as Ramos could stay away from Terrell's clinches he was able to land the thumping body blows that are his specialty. But Terrell followed a steady pattern throughout the fight, covering himself in a full crouch and bulling Ramos against the ropes where he could use his head and dig at Ramos' body. Although Terrell came alive only in sporadic spurts, he appeared to dominate Ramos when he did." -United Press International

 

None of whom were guys who were greatly remembered. He failed against lesser fighters like Sylvester Jones, and was sparked by Bob Satterfield, and only earned a draw against Machon. He just wasn't that good. You can dress it up any way you want and post all the quotes- the impressive wins just aren't there to be comparing him to Marciano.

His record badly fails in comparison to Ingemar Johanson. We shouldn't even mention them in the same breath.

 

Yes he did. I could've swore Terrell knocked out Foster in the 7th... but what do I know compared to that idiot incapable of writing coherent sentences let alone paragraphs.

 

His arse!

 

I write a whole essay and you respond with "he lost to Satterfield, and Jones and drew against Machen. He sucked lolz" unable to refute my points. Against Jones, he was a 19 year old kid and lost a 4 round decision (I'd hardly call that decisive) Jones took an early lead but was being beaten to a pulp in the fourth round when the bout was stopped abruptly because the promoters wanted to start the main event. When they fought again it was basically the same thing, Jones taking an early lead but unable to sustain it and ended up getting knocked tf out.
I've already discussed his loss to Satterfield and "draw" with Machen when you bought them up earlier. You seem to think repeating the same thing over and over again while ignoring the rebuttal and failing to address it makes you the winner. Unfortunately, In reality it just shows you have limited knowledge on the subject at hand.

 

Rocky ko

 

Because your essay is stupid, and obviously so. A guy who lost to Sylvester Jones, and whose best wins are modestly good fighters like Mittef, Richardson and Terrell does not compare to an undefeated fighter who beat four legends in six fights, and a number of #1 contenders. It is dumb.

Cite all the mediocre wins and nice words you want. Write all the essays. Cleavland Williams was not in Rocky Marciano's league. He is better compared to guys like Bert Cooper, Derick Chisora, and Jesse Ferguson, BASED ON ACCOMPLISHMENT.

You would be better off arguing if he could ever have beaten Bob Satterfield or Eddie Machon in rematches, rather than comparing him the one of the best that ever was.

 

I know he did too. This guy is saying that Foster knocked Terrell down!

 

One thing people don't understand is that the fact that Williams drew with Machen is impressive, not unimpressive. Machen was a powerful, fast, very durable and crafty fighter. A draw with him is not bad. Another thing, swagdelfadeel, is that usually those defending Williams are not defending him cuz they feel sorry for the guy or just want to be blind followers of the myth, but actually want to make legitimate points in his defense. Those who don't like Williams only use enough facts to make him look bad.

 

Alright, let's look at this way man. How come Ali couldn't stop or even floor Terrell, who was cut badly in both eyes? after all he had 8 rounds to do it. And how come Manuel Ramos and Thad Spencer, B level fighters, weren't able to stop a post-prime Terrell, and both got tough fights from Terrell, yet Cleveland Williams stopped Terrell in 7 rounds, who was at worst only slightly green?

 

Actually, you're essay was good, and although Williams had quite a few shortcomings, only a stupid person would call your essay stupid.

 

Williams was a good contender who had a really hard punch. I don't think that does him any injustice. He didn't suck or anything like that, he was a good contender.

 

Your argument is a red herring. It actually has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Your original point was that Cleveland Williams was a myth. When I showed that was clearly not the case, and you evidently had nothing to refute it with (saying why those fighters might be mistaken or their own personal interests, etc) so you changed your stance to "William's legacy doesn't hold a candle to Marciano's) and attempted to change the goal posts. Not under my watch you don't.

 

I think what Machen remarked about Williams really captures how much I feel that Williams is underrated as a good boxer as well. I mean, compared to Liston, he really had very fast hands, and could move around very well. He also had good stamina. I think most people would categorize Williams as a Foreman-type fighter, which wouldn't be wrong, but Williams was much more skilled imo.