the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Larry Holmes (c) vs. Mike Weaver I

    June 22, 1979, at Madison Square Garden in New York, 15 rounds for Holmes’ WBC heavyweight championship

    Holmes enters 30-0 (21) at 215 pounds making his third defense (coming off stoppage wins over Alfredo Evangelista and Ossie Ocasio), while eighth-ranked Weaver is 19-8 (13) on a five-knockout win streak that includes stoppages of Bernardo Mercado and Stan Ward.

    The fight is televised by HBO, with the three American networks declining to carry a heavyweight title fight for the first time in quite a while. Weaver, 28, is regarded as an easy touch with his so-so record and basically no previous exposure to the public at large. This is the start of HBO’s shift into being a major player in the televised boxing scene.

    If 29-year-old Larry wins, he stands to make $3M for his next defense against Earnie Shavers.

    Round 1: Holmes 10-9
    Round 2: Weaver 10-9 (body work mostly)
    Round 3: Holmes 10-9
    Round 4: Weaver 10-9 (both fighters rattled in an action round)
    Round 5: Weaver 10-9
    Round 6: Holmes 10-9 (gets on his toes to stick and move for the first time)
    Round 7: Holmes 10-9 (rocks Weaver late and rakes him over on the ropes)
    Round 8: Holmes 10-9
    Round 9: Holmes 10-9 (another big action round)
    Round 10: Weaver 10-9 (Holmes says he was thumbed and is wobbled and battered late)
    Round 11: Holmes 10-8 (great back-and-fourth action with big punches from both and Holmes scoring a knockdown late in the round with an uppercut)
    Round 12: Weaver hasn’t recovered, Holmes batters him until the ref steps in at 0:44 to stop it

    My scorecard: Holmes 106-102 at time of stoppage

    Outcome: Holmes wins by TKO in Round 12. He is up 107-101, 106-102 and 106-103 on the official scorecards.

    Holmes goes on to establish himself as the dominant heavyweight champ starting with the successful defense against Shavers, while Weaver vaults into a long-term spot in the rankings (and a future championship) off his performance.

    One of the best heavyweight title fights you’ll see if you haven’t ever checked it out.

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  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Mayweather vs Hernandez and Chavez

    These are the two fights he was made to work the hardest as a SFW and both, imo, showcase his ability to fight in the pocket. The way he shortens his arms and elongate his body is amazing. He's able to avoid most head shots, defend his body with his elbows and get off pin point hooks and uppercuts.

    Obviously he has the broken hand against Hernandez but up until that point it was going the way of his other fights imo.

    I am glad I've been watching some leak Floyd again, I'd begun to really unappreciate him as a fighting machine, but it's clear he was in an immense level.

    Controversially though, I don't think he's the best fighter ever at SFW.

    I think JCC would beat him. There's no other SFW I'd favour to do a job though, apart from maybe Saddler, unsure if he's big enough though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  3. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Sandy Saddler was a guy, similar to Wilfredo Gomez, who is a nearly unbeatable force of nature at his best weight (126 for SS, 122 for Bazooka) but who becomes merely very good when moving up a few pounds to the next division.

    So I agree that Saddler couldn’t beat either PBF or JCC at 130 even though he could very possibly dominate most every 126-pounder who ever lived (including Pep 3 out of 4).
     
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  4. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mario, I finally got a chance to check this out after your initial post. I thought it was a good, close fight. Here is how I had it. BTW, this fight is a good test on one's scoring views.

    Round 1: 10-8 Morales (scores a knockdown)
    Round 2: 10-9 Diaz
    Round 3: 10-9 Morales
    Round 4: 10-9 Morales
    Round 5: 10-9 Morales
    Round 6: 10-10 Even
    Round 7: 10-9 Diaz
    Round 8: 10-9 Diaz
    Round 9: 10-9 Morales
    Round 10: 10-10 Even
    Round 11: 10-10 Even
    Round 12: 10-9 Diaz

    Total: 116-114 Morales (actual scores: 114-113, 115-112 and 115-113 all for Diaz)

    Again, a good close fight, IMO, as one can see by my 3 even rounds. Morales was outstanding when he could keep the fight on the outside, but when Diaz tore inside he was clearly the boss, no matter how rough he was. Mario, barring my even rounds - which are swing rounds - you and I only disagreed on the 2nd round, which wasn't bad. A good fight, which I felt Morales won, albeit, closely. One more thing, I agree with you on the first round being 10-8 as Diaz had a slight edge (I would have given him the round) until Morales dropped him. If it was a dominant round, then there would have been some cause to say 10-9, but I was good with 10-8.
     
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  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Castillo vs Mayweather

    I gave Floyd rounds 1 through 4.he moved about the ring expertly, fired off his sniper shots, great jabs to the body, and for the most part Castillo was just chasing him about, very similar to how Corrales did, but not as wide open.

    Rounds 5-12 I gave to Castillo (apart from the 8th,i gave Floyd the benefit of the 10-8) as Castillo was able to cut the ring off expertly, outwork Floyd up close and really lands some quality shots.

    I think Jose was really unlucky not to retain his title here.

    Rounds 5 and 9 were close so I don't wanna shout robbery, but Jose out landed him, landed the harder shots and was clearly the ring general.

    Soon as the fight is over Floyd says he had an injury to his shoulder and couldn't throw his punches the way he wanted to. Usually I wouldn't buy an excuse like that, but he went away to have surgery and won clearly in the rematch so maybe there is something to it.

    Castillo 114-112
     
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Mayweather vs Castillo

    Well the first fight was almost unanimously considered a bad decision, Floyd said it was his shoulder, and he still won anyways. Castillo said it was a win for him and everyone agrees.

    The rematch sees Floyd defend his title

    Floyd vs Castillo

    1:10-9
    2:10-9
    3:10-9
    4:10-9
    5:9-10
    6:9-10
    7:9-10
    8:10-9
    9:9-10
    10:10-9
    11:10-9
    12:10-9

    After 9 rounds, imo this was a slower paced replica of the first fight. Floyd started strong and takes the first 4 rounds. Over the next 5 rounds Castillo begins to out land him (again apart from the 8th) but then Floyd gets behind his jab and sweeps the championship rounds to secure a 116-112 victory on my card.

    Three things are confirmed to me here

    1) Floyd is better than Castillo and his excuse seems legit

    2) Floyd will always struggle against pressure fighters, even when fully fit

    3) Floyd does not have a good jab, he has a quick jab. There's a difference. It's his footwork and hand speed that wins the outside battles here, and he actually misses quite a lot with the jab up top.

    I actually really rate Castillo tbh and think he's a great LW. I don't think there's many who are superior than him up close and not many who would translate that superiority into victory.

    I mean LW ATG pressure fighters, who do we have? Duran, Armstrong, Chavez and Ike Williams. 3 of those 4 I think does a job on Floyd.

    In fact Ike vs Castillo would be a great fight.
     
  7. Mario040481

    Mario040481 Member Full Member

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    Hometown fighter. Hometown judge. Massively inexperienced judge.
    This is the polar opposite of a "The judges must've scored the blood!?" fight, as I heard later that the judges were under the impression that David Diaz's eye swole up to the point of almost leaving his body not on account of clean precision punching, but what was an extremely severe allergy to peanuts. Terrible tragedy just barely avoided there.
     
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  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Manny Pacquiao vs Sasakul, Singsurat, Nedal Hussain, Ledwaba, Jorge Julio and Lucero

    As a teenage flyweight Pacquaio is as raw a boxer as you could hope for tbh. He isn't that impressive from a technical viewpoint but his speed and power is a very real game changer. He did get knocked out twice, but I don't think it's any coincidence that in both fights he missed the weight and probably spent a large portion of camp trying to cut. Not a great Flyweight by any stretch, but a very formidable one imo.

    He made a jump straight to SBW and you see him against Nedal Hussein, he's improved slightly from a technical view point but he isn't yet the superstar he will become. Hussein times him with a thudding jab to drop him but ultimately gets physically overwhelmed.

    Ledwaba, is the start of prime Pacquaio for me. He has these amazing physical attributes and now he has a legendary trainer to hone his talents. He blows Ledwaba out of the water completely and dominates him.

    The Julio fight is a showcase defence on the Tyson Lewis undercard, he looks sensational in this one, following Roachs instructions to the letter in both rounds.

    The funniest thing is, he's described as a hit prospect, let alone he's a 2 weight champion and has been boxing for 7 years lol.

    There's a suspicion in 2002 he might be the he's SBW but Ayala and Bones are fighting each other for supremacy, credit to them. But in 2003 they leave the division and Pacquaio underlines his claim as the best SBW in the world with a one punch ko of the tricky Lucero before he jumps up to FW.
     
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Marco Antonio Barrera vs Manny Pacquiao

    So Barrera was the lineal champion in a featherweight division as fractured as it would ever be. He had beaten Hamed and defended his title claim 4 times going into this fight.

    Pacquiao was an enigma. A non stop offensive machine. As a teenager in the flyweight division he was a monstrous puncher who only ever really lost due to being too tight at the weight. As a SBW he was destructive and had a successful run as IBF title holder and arguably the number 1 in the world. His style was pure aggression and work rate brought about by blistering speed and unsuspecting angles, but he had never faced a great fighter. Until this fight.

    This was huge step up for Pacquiao. He was jumping up in weight and facing by far his best ever opponent and what we saw was pure dominance. Ignore the knockdown in round 1, he threw a punch and fell over, the 11 rounds of the fight saw Pacquaio physically overwhelm Barrera the way he had done everyone else so far, but this was Barrera, a lock for the HOF and a certifiable ATG fighter.

    Pacquiao announced himself on the world scene this fight. He destroyed Barrera.
     
  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I checked out a couple more Juan Manuel Marquez bouts today from a bit earlier in his career

    Juan Manuel Marquez v Enrique Jupiter

    I remember Jupiter from when he got a bit of a write-up in Ring mag as an upcoming hot prospect. He didn't do that bad in his career but lost his real big ones. He was actually coming off a 12 round loss for the world title against Vuyani Bungu when he fought Marquez. No need to run a card here, JMM won every round and dropped Jupiter in the 7th for a 60-53 score on my card. But the fight was competitive, which is more than I can say for the next match.

    Juan Manuel Marquez v Derrick Gainer

    How Gainer made it as far as he did I will never know...wait, I do know. Gainer was best friends with Roy Jones. Indeed, Jones even used to supplement Gainer's purses. If a promoter was only offering Gainer $20K, Jones would jump in with an additional amount of money to give his best friend a good purse. I also remember Jones always hyping up his friend on camera and always referring to him by his nickname 'Smoke' Gainer. A more misleading name you will never hear. I know I saw him fight before this encounter but obviously it was unmemorable because I just don't remember. And this fight was no different. It was stopped in the 7th due to an accidental headbutt that caused a cut to Gainer and it went to the technical scorecards. Again, no need to run a card, I had JMM winning every round for a 70-63 score (in Michigan or for whatever title they were fighting for, they scored the partial round as well that it was stopped in). Now, for one, Gainer really caused the butt when he lunged in but I was really amazed at the doctor who meekly asks Gainer, "Do you want to continue?" WTF! Either its bad enough to stop it or it isn't. You don't ask the combatant if he wants to continue. And Gainer, who looked like he was looking for a way out to begin with, with his constant complaints of low blows, of course said, no! If a fighter says no, it should be a retirement not a tech. decision. Somewhere after this fight I heard Jones and he had a falling out, which of course meant, no more big purses. Bad move, "Smoke!"
     
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  11. cleming

    cleming Active Member Full Member

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    I think Gainer was a solid fighter but his outing against JMM was one of the worst performance I've ever seen. He didn't want to be there. At all.

    I watched a tremendous WBO 130 title fight today between Kamel Bou-Ali & Antonio Rivera. It had everything, well worth a watch :)
     
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  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez 1

    1:10-6
    2:10-9
    3:9-10
    4:9-10
    5:9-10
    6:9-10
    7:10-9
    8:10-9
    9:10-9
    10:10-9
    11:9-10
    12:9-10

    The first two rounds follow the pattern of Pacquaio and his career to date. He physically overwhelms Marquez with his blistering handspeed and his power. And you have to remember Pacquiao has thought a huge variety of styles, no one seems to be able to stop him. Two losses as a teenager when he spent most of his camp trying to cut weight, not withstanding, but it seems the Pacquaio train is showing no signs of slowing down.

    But then round 3, Marquez is finally able to get his jab going, but more than that he realises Pacquiao is setting up every single attack behind a jab so he adjusts his stance and jabs with Pac, what he's losing in speed he makes up for with timing. Every single jab Marquez is there jabbing over it, Pacquiao isn't able to get his shots off and Marquez can follow up with a combination. This pattern follows rounds 3-6 and it seems Pacquiao has been figured out and Marquez is well on his way to victory.

    But then the 7th round begins and Pacquiao is the one to spot something now. He stops jabbing, in fact he stops doing much of anything, he just dances around changing the tempo of the fight so that Marquez is having to lead, and Pacquiao becomes the counter puncher, he slips the shots of Marquez firing back with his own combinations and, in doing so he disrupts the rhythm of Marquez allowing him to begin firing his own 1-2s again. On my card and Pac wins his first round since the 2nd.

    Round 8 is another very close round, Marquez and Pac are both trying to bait the other and it again becomes a battle of speed vs timing. But Pac makes another adjustment, and uses one of the weapons he becomes most known for, that lead straight left. A few times he bounces foot to foot, whips the left out and Marquez is unable to stop it. Marquez looks to have some success against the ropes, but I think it was a slip and nothing much got through.

    Round 9 Marquez seems to have abandoned the jab now, he's instead trying to time and counter Pac with power shots, winging fierce hooks in response to the ambush attacks from Pacquiao. A few counters get through, but by my money its not enough to negate the activity of Pacquiao.

    Round 10 imo trying to increase the aggression, but all that does is increase the openings for Pacquiao to exploit. He really shows in the fight he can pick his spots, pick his punches and actually does have a boxing IQ. This isn't a whirlwind performance, this is calculated attacks, chess tactics and its beautiful. Pac is really making Marquez pay behind the 1-2 which he's used to such good effect this fight.

    Round 11 might be the most perfect round of Marquez's whole career and he uses all the tools in his box here. He jabs on the front foot, jabs on the back foot, times his right hands perfectly and seems to be back in control, too little too late on my card, but a lot of the rounds from 7-10 were close so a good strong finish gives him a chance of winning the fight.

    Round 12 I found almost impossible to split. They seemed to match each other punch for punch, I give Marquez a very slight edge as I think his defence was better and I can't really split the offence. And I never score even rounds.

    So all in all I have it 114-111 to Pacquiao.

    I've watched and scored this fight many many times. Not sure if I've ever had this score before (6 rounds a-piece) but it's what I have now.

    I've said this a few times, Marquez has a rep for having the perfect style to give Pacquiao problems, but Pacquiao had the perfect style to give Marquez problems as well. Going into round 7 Marquez had all the momentum and there's no reason why that shouldn't continue, but Pac made adjustments, the next 4 rounds were razor thin and both were giving each other all sorts of problems.

    The first 6 rounds are easy to score. And I'll happily argue with myself if ever I disagreed. The next 6 are very hard to score imo hence all the different results we see argued on these boards.

    Two great, well matched fighters.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Terence Crawford UD12 Ricky Burns

    I love that Crawford spends a couple of rounds looking at his opponents. That's how good that guy is. He spends a couple of rounds actually looking and seeing what he's about. There isn't time for it these days, not remotely. You have to just go and deploy because if you lose two rounds you can't afford to lose 4 of the ten that remain. It's such a cede.

    Crawford's always doing it though, and he does it here. He tests Burns' handspeed and footspeed, that seems to be the main thing; he does a lot of in-out, dipping his knees, a slow move to his left. It costs him the first which Burns nicks on a sound jab - Crawford does look for the left hook though and lands it meaningfully twice. Very close first even though Crawford is scouting. I thought Burns won a close second - Crawford steps in as a southpaw and the two immediately become standoffish. Man, Burns has some **** tattoos.

    Outwith the first two rounds, there is nothing here for Burns. It's a technical mismatch. Basically Crawford tries each stance, finalised his plan (i'm guessing) and stomps him in a switch-hititng display which he eases into but which, by round six, is of the highest quality. The disparity in quality between them is clearer and clearer the further the fight goes.

    Crawford: 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12.
    Burns: 1,2.

    10-2 Crawford.
     
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Sat watching the Pacquiao - Morales event.

    Not just the fight, I have the full broadcast on, enjoying the whole schebang.

    Over the last couple of days I've watched so much Pacquaio in the build up to this.

    Seen him as a teenage Wilder punching his way through the flyweight division. As an absolute whirl wind of punches smashing all who stood in his way at SBW.

    As an offensive master at FW showing his skills against two great fighters.

    And now here we are, he's about to lose, for the first time as a prime fighter.

    Sometimes when rewatching old fights its easy to go through the motions and just watch the 12 rounds. I wanted to really enjoy this and take it in.

    I'll pop my card up at the end.
     
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  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Morales vs Pacquiao

    I gave Morales 2,3,4,7,8,10,11
    I gave Pacquaio 1,5,6,9,12

    Dont let the close scores fool you. This was a schooling. An absolute schooling.

    In round 1, Pacquiao hurt Morales to the body and had a very good round.

    Rounds 5 and 6 Morales seemed to take off.

    Round 12 Morales flat out gave away by fighting southpaw and slugging it out.

    The rest of the fight was a superb counter boxing display by Morales. He saw what Marquez did in round 3-6 and mastered it to perfection. Pacquiao was never able to get his jab going and still was unable to avoid a well timed counter straight right hand.

    The difference is Pacquiao didn't floor Morales or seriously hurt him at any point.

    Morales controlled the jabbing exchange, covered up well when Pacquiao went on the attack, countered excellent and drove him back with hard accurate shots.

    The performance was masterful.
     
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