1952 Rocky Marciano vs 1960 Cleveland Williams

Life magazine reported: "Trying to knock the challenger out with one punch, the 29-year-old Marciano was over-eager and awkward. He lunged, butted, hit below the belt, on the break and after the bell. Once, he swung so wildly that he missed and slipped clumsily to the canvas. Outboxing the champion and avoiding his blows, LaStarza managed to win four of the first six rounds. In the seventh, Marciano changed his tactics, started aiming at LaStarza's body as well as his head in an attempt to wear the challenger down. He succeeded.

 

So those who disagree with your analysis do not watch Marciano's fights?
Speaking only for myself I bought the Layne, Moore,Louis,Walcott1&2,Charles1&2,and Cokkell fights in the late sixties.
By your statement you are implying Williams only ko'd no hopers yes?
Can you direct me to where I can see the Williams v Satterfield fight which, judging by your graphic description you have obviously seen?
Do you entertain the possibility that Williams,being a late sub, and only 20 years old ,might not have been at his peak when he was stopped by the hard hitting Satterfield?
ps Williams took on the 9th rated Satterfield in his 35th fight
Marciano's 35th fight was a decision win over
11-14-2 Willis Applegate

 

I once read a rather detailed fight report that was kindly sourced by @SolomonDeedes Satterfeild wobbled and decked Williams before setting him up for the finish.

if he had not already found his level, When was Williams peak? After williams was destroyed by Liston he fought no other punchers until after the shooting.

He drew with Machen and lost to Terrell. It’s as good as it got for Williams.

The 12 fights he had between being knocked out by Liston and Losing to Terrell one fight was the draw with Machen. Among these One guy was a 13 fight novice. 3 were coming directly off a loss. Of the remaining 8 only Terrell of their first fight had won more than two in a row from their last 6 fights.

 

Do you type these posts every time or have you resorted to just saving your spiel and copy pasting it?

 

This would be a good firefight for a while and Cleveland gets in his fair share of scoring shots, maybe even hurting Rocky, but as the rounds go on, Rocky's attrition, offense and workrate takes over. I like 1952 Marciano to win in about 7 or 8 rounds.

 

So according to you Williams was in his prime at 20?
How many top level punchers did Marciano meet in his entire career?

 

Imo far too much is made of size and what Rocky weighed, something I'm often guilty of myself tbh.

Realistically speaking, if Williams would have been born a decade earlier and was a title challenger for Rocky, does anyone seriously think he'd have walked out of the ring a world champion?

I honestly can't even picture it. Rocky and his team would know they're in against a 220 pound puncher, they'd plan their weight accordingly, of that I've no doubt, and the outcome in my mind would be clear as day: Marciano ko.

A lot of fantasy fights involving Rocky split the board in two, but I've a new way of looking at it now, put the other guy as a title challenger to Rocky, be it Bruno, Williams, Ray, Briggs, Wilder, whoever it was. Put them as a title challenger, let Rocky and his team determine the weight they would need to be and tbh, more often than not I think Rocky retains his belt.

Sure in a one off fantasy fight saying 180 pounds vs 240 pounds, I get where people are coming from, but in terms of Rocky being the champion and being able to prepare for his challenger, I just don't think there's an awful lot of men in HW history who would get the job done.

Don't get me wrong, someone who's as great as Rocky, but with a size advantage, like Liston, Tyson, Frazier etc yeah I'll probably side with them.

But a random HW who never achieved greatness in his own era, to walk into that ring as challenger and walk out as champion. I don't think I buy it.

Maybe in a couple of years I'll revert back to the "but look how big Briggs is, he'd cut right through Rocky" but for now I'm happy with my line of thinking.

 

What weight would you think would be suitable for Rocky against Williams? What Williams might have achieved is problematic. A 357 magnum bullet in the guts effectively terminated his career as far as being a contender is concerned.

 

I don't know to be totally honest, but I do know that I believe he would train appropriately considering the size and strength of his opponent. And I just can't picture Williams walking out of the ring with the belt.

Yeah I'm not a detractor of Williams, I think he was an amazing talent. Coming in as a late sub against Satterfield as a 20 year old is judged way too harshly imo. And you certainly can't blame a guy for coming up short against Sonny Liston. Everything from 64 on wards can be thrown out of the window.

Had he not been shot I think he'd have beaten Terrell and Patterson but he'd always lose to Ali imo.

 

Cleveland and George Chuvalo would have been a much better scrap had they fought when they were both ranked # 3 title contenders

 

Absolutely brilliant post right here. A better way of putting it than I ever could. Bravo.

 

Williams loses the fight but afterwards leaves a Cleveland Steamer on Rocks chest

 

Yes,a guy who had 31 pro fights at that age is prime fighter!It is like saying Canelo was not in his prime for Floyd!
And at that time Satterfield was past his prime!He was knocked by Marty Marshall for god sake!
And you forgot one important thing and that is:Satterfield was LHW and Williams is big HW!
Satterfield was chinny,he was knocked by weak punchers and still could take Williams blows shows that Rocky would take that very easy!
Satterfield was knocked by MW Lamotta at MW!
Ex MW who was chinny even for his own category,was beaten by every LHW and still beat Williams when he was past his prime shows that Rocky would do better than Satterfield!

 

Williams was 20 years old ,heavyweights traditionally mature later than lower weight fighters.Wiliams for example added about 15 lbs of muscle to his frame.
Satterfield was the 9th ranked heavyweight when he fought Williams in1954 he was 30 years old, in his next fight after koing Williams he stopped ranked John Holman.The following year [55] Satterfield moved up a peg to be ranked 8th,and the year after[56 ]was ranked 6th .
That's a very strange indication of declining!

ps Three months prior to stopping Williams,Marshall had beaten Sonny Liston.

 

Do you always hold losses against fighter when they're that young?

There's a massive amount of greats who had very little amateur experience and basically learnt on the job.

It's understood historically that these fights aren't held against people.

Like Pacquiao being smacked around by flyweights as a kid. No one uses that as a any kind of analysis in his up coming welterweight fights.