1952 Rocky Marciano vs 1960 Cleveland Williams

Williams was 20 years old,so was Ali,Tyson,Patterson...wehn they fought and didn't lose against MW!
Williams was 212 for first Liston fight and 202 for Satterfield fight which is 10lb!
Satterfield was not even a LHw,but MW!
Just check their photo together and size dofference is big,very big!

 

Yes,I do!
Young?He was a huge HW and lost not against LHw,but ex MW with weak chin!
Bob was knocked by Jake LaMotta in 7 rounds as MW,and by Ezzard,Archie and bum Marshall in 3 rounds!
No amateur?He was Tampa amateur champion and had 31 fights so he was enough experienced and big but he still lost against chinny ex MW who was not even a LHW!
Which great fighter lost against ex MW?And how could that fighter beat someone like Marciano?

 

Keep in mind that Williams fought in an era where the average heavyweight was 185 pounds while he was closer to the size of a modern day heavyweight at 6'3 215 pounds and even essentially being a giant in those days, he still wasn't dominant. So he was beatable by smaller men, especially a man who arguably would be the last man standing if we had a tournament between every ATG 176-200 pounder.

 

So to clarify, you pick Pacquiao to get destroyed by welterweight fighters, due to his loss as a young fighter at flyweight?

 

The bottom line is Williams was a very good puncher. Very big guy. Very athletic. Very exciting. A lot like big Pat Comesky and Charlie Retzlaf. Who were equally out of their depth against great fighters. No shame in that.

Let’s see some of this love for big Pat and Charlie boy.

Of Retzlaff, famed sportswriter Damon Runyon would say "[He is] the best-looking heavyweight prospect that has bobbed up in a long time," and "[Retzlaff is the] best of the new heavyweights. He’s got what it takes. I haven’t seen a fighter in a long time who has impressed me so favourably."At the end of 1935 Retzlaff was ranked by Ring Magazine among the top ten heavyweight boxers in the world. Retzlaf scored 54 knockouts in 64 fights.

Big Pat final record was 73 wins (60 by knockout), 12 losses and 2 draws. He also reached #3 in the rankings.

 

People have to insult the Satterfield loss because it tends to go against the grain. That grain being the 60s were so much better then 50s fighters. Satterfield was a good fighter but he was just a stepping stone to the top. He wasn’t prime for Williams and beat him fair. Not a green Williams but not a prime williams. But the loss shouldn’t be discounted. I don’t think Williams chin holds against Rocky in the long run (or short run even).

 

Nobody is saying Williams is an all time great nor does he compare to Marciano in terms of accomplishment. Williams however was much quicker than the Rock, likely hit harder than Sonny Liston, had 3-5 inches in height over Marciano, over a foot in reach, outweighed him by 30+ pounds, superior boxing skills, and had a stylistic advantage. Him not accomplishing as much as Marciano has nothing to do with this. For example, few here (well more than a few considering the amount of rabid fanboys of the rock here on ESB) would give Rocky a chance against Tyson Fury. Do you think anyone ranks Fury higher than Marciano? Of course not.

This is just non-nonsensical. Miteff went the distance with fighters such as Alonzo Johnson, Henry Cooper, Eddie Machen, Zora Folley and Chuvalo in which he dropped an SD that many felt he deserved to win. He also had defeated Nino Valdez and Wayne Betha. Two very capable fighters. He was ranked number 7 and had only been stopped once earlier in his 13th pro fight, at 20 years old against another monster puncher. The idea that this victory wasn't impressive is ridiculous. As a matter of fact, many felt he deserved a title shot after his performance against Miteff.

Not true. Ali, Holmes, Louis, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson, Lewis, Dempsey, Wladimir, Holyfield, Johnson, etc could all reasonably be ranked above Marciano. Many respected posters here including Mcvey don't include Marciano in their top ten.

 

Wait, what? Based on what? Certainly not on what he did in the ring.

 

I just want to point out that despite Williams size and him fighting in a HW division where the average HW was 6' 185-190 pounds, he still didn't dominate. And Marciano would be among the best if not arguably THE best 176-200 pound fighter ever. So while he was 6'3 215-220 pounds on his prime and hit like a truck, something was still missing. Even if Sonny Liston never existed, Williams still wouldn't have run roughshod over the division even though he was a giant for his day.

 

It's true, Liston didn't stop Williams from getting the title. He wasn't even the best contender of that era. I think I'd take Patterson and Ingo over him to be honest.

 

Williams would do better against Rocky than he did against Liston, while Marciano hits hard , he doesn't nearly have the arsenal that Sonny had.

 

Satterfield was165lbs when he fought 167lbs Lamotta,he was also 22 years old.

NB Williams was 216lbs for the second Liston fight which is 14lbs more than he weighed for Satterfield !

You keep getting corrected yet never acknowledge it,and what is even more mystifying you repeat the same mistakes later!

For example you say Satterfield was past it when he fought Williams,yet he was just 30 and ranked number 9,the following year he was ranked number 8 ,and the year after that number 6! How do you account for that?

 

Yes I do!
He was not destroyed by wlterweights,but by Fw in his prime like Erik Morales,Medgoen,Juan Manuel Márquez Méndez!

 

Lol

 

Yes he was 165,which shows that he was small MW,he was weak chinned even then!And he was 23 years old with about 17 pro fights!
He was 23 and Lamotta was 24 years old,just one year older than LaMotta which is not excuse!

I am talking about first Liston fight, he was 212 lb!
Cleveland Williams 209 lbs beat Dick Richardson 203 lbs by DQ in round 4 of 10 in 1958!
Cleveland Williams 210 lbs lost to Ernie Terrell 198 lbs by SD in round 10 of 10
So he was just 7-10 lb heavier than Satterfield fight!

You are keep getting corrected because you are caught in lie few times because you favored some fighters more than others!
I caught you not once but few times also and you lacked knowledge!I caught you now also!

1953 1954 1955
Rocky Marciano, Champion

1. Nino Valdes
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Dan Bucceroni
4. Roland LaStarza
5. Earl Walls
6. Don Cockell
7. Clarence Henry
8. Tommy Harrison
9. Bob Satterfield
10. Coley Wallace

Rocky Marciano, Champion

1. Nino Valdes
2. Don Cockell
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Bob Baker
5. Earl Walls
6. Heinz Neuhaus
7. Rex Layne
8. Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson
9. Charley Norkus
10. Jimmy Slade

Rocky Marciano, Champion

1. Archie Moore
2. Bob Baker
3. Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson
4. John Holman
5. Willie Pastrano
6. Nino Valdes
7. Johnny Summerlin
8. Bob Satterfield
9. Young Jack Johnson
10. Ezzard Charles

He was past his best!His Ko ratio dropped after Williams fight!
Also he lost against no names like Marty Marshall,McBride...
His best win after Williams fight was Nino Valdes who was ancient like Satterfield was!