1952 Rocky Marciano vs 1960 Cleveland Williams

I've been advised not to engage with you because posters say you are a troll,making silly statements just to get a reaction.I now think you believe the rubbish you spout!

FYI Ancient Valdes was just 30 years old when Satterfield beat him. Correction.
Satterfield was no 9 in 53
No8 in55
no6 in56
So he was,as I said ,going UP the ratings ,NOT going DOWN.
My point stands and you are completley undressed,not a pretty sight!

 

I thought he was 40 and ranked #79????

 

Baker
Neuhaus
Gilliam
Valdes
Walls
Wallace
Layne
How tall were they ,and what did they weigh?
And that's just a sample from the early50s when Williams was just beginning to make a name.

 

Only troll who is also stupid here is you!You stated that Williams add 15 lb but I proved my point and you lied!
Next time atleast educate yourself before commenting rubbish things you said!
Only who make silly statements is you!

Ancient Valdes was beaten next year by Sonny Liston and was washed for that fight!

 

Based on common opponents/sparring partner testimonies:

George Foreman who put Williams in the top 3 hardest punchers he ever faced or sparred with. Foreman also notoriously sparred with Liston, yet didn't include him.

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Roy Harris (who fought Sonny Liston and sparred with Cleveland Williams), calls Cleveland Williams his most dangerous and toughest opponent was "when I sparred with Cleveland Williams." http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Ken/Hissner030911.htm

"But at one point in his career, he would have spelled real problems for Ali, because at his height as a puncher, Cleveland Williams hit harder than Liston. Before he got shot, the man was awesome But afterwards, he wasn't much of a fighter.. " Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=DfcPAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT134&lpg=PT134&dq="williams+hit+harder+than+liston"&source=bl&ots=U_vhYf34f8&sig=ACfU3U0-9tFME4JqtaE-xx34tjfj1d-8XA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiqlYTguIHqAhUeRDABHQPoDhYQ6AEwAXoECAMQAQ

Ernie Terrell (Who fought Williams twice and sparred with Liston)
His toughest opponent: Cleveland Williams
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=-pleAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vVINAAAAIBAJ&pg=4798,539251&dq=&hl=en
:"He was the strongest fighter I ever fought"
http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/6048-ernie-terrell-chicagos-heavyweight-champion
"His left hook is poison."
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Sy8_AAAAIBAJ&sjid=9lAMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3337,4585601&dq=&hl=en

Sonny Liston:......"Williams hit very hard and he was quick"
"He hit as hard as I could."

https://books.google.com/books?id=9...hUKEwjz2eGWs7XpAhWIg-AKHZlGCKgQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ

"two of William's losses came at the hands of Liston, who has said Williams was the hardest puncher he has ever met." https://www.newspapers.com/clip/51090697/sioux-city-journal/

 

Baker
Neuhaus
Gilliam
Valdes
Walls
Wallace
Layne
How tall were they ,and what did they weigh?
And that's just a sample from the early50s when Williams was just beginning to make a name.

WILIAMS was 216lbs for the 2nd Liston fight with not an ounce of fat on him
That's 14 lbs of muscle, more than he weighed for the Satterfield fight.

Yes or No?
Why do you think everyone laughs at you and calls you a troll?

 

Only a small number of fighters he faced were in that weight thereshold, most of whom were very early in his career. None of these smaller men actually beat him either (with the exception of Satterfield who was 4 inches taller than The Rock and around the same weight)

The following men beat him.

Sylvester Jones: 213


Sonny Liston 6'1" 212½

Ernie Terrell 6'6" 198½

Muhammad Ali 6'3 212¾

Alvin Blue Lewis 6'3" 218

Al Jones 6'5" 232

Bob Cleroux 6'1" 214

Mac Foster 6′2″ 216 (213 in the rematch)

Jack O'Halloran 6'6" 251

George Chuvalo 6'0" 227

This shows that literally all of the men who beat Williams (with the exception of one opponent around the same weight and 4 inches taller),including those post-gunshot, those of whom were the majority were all much taller and heavier than The Rock.

 

But did anyone here hit as hard as Rocky?
Did anyone had determination,chin,stamina and heart as Rocky?
The only one who had good chin here as Rocky is Chuvalo!
And Foster did not hit near as hard as Marciano!Liston is the only one who hit almost as hard as Marciano!
So Williams would face someone with better stamina than Ali,harder punch than Liston and equal chin as Chuvalo!
He showed bad against each one but all this combined?

Satterfield was never same weight as Rocky!He was ex MW and fought at LHW as 175-182!
Satterfield was knocked out in 7 rounds by future middleweight champion Jake LaMotta
Satterfield was 6ft 1 and Rocky was 5ft 10 which is 2,3 inches, but Rocky was bigger man overall!

 

WILLIAMS was 210-212 in all his prime fights except Liston second fight!
That is 13lb only but like I mentioned he was 7-10 lbs only heavier than his fight with Satterfield!
Cleveland Williams 209 lbs beat Dick Richardson 203 lbs by DQ in round 4 of 10
Sonny Liston 213 lbs beat Cleveland Williams 210 lbs by TKO at 2:13 in round 3 of 10
Cleveland Williams 210 lbs lost to Ernie Terrell 198 lbs by SD in round 10 of 10
Cleveland Williams 208 lbs beat Wayne Bethea 208 lbs by UD in round 10 of 10
Cleveland Williams 211 lbs beat Alex Miteff 208 lbs by TKO at 1:32 in round 5 of 10
Cleveland Williams 211 lbs drew with Eddie Machen 198 lbs by PTS in round 10 of 10
Muhammad Ali 213 lbs beat Cleveland Williams 211 lbs by TKO at 1:08 in round 3 of 15
yes or no man?If anybody laughs those are people who you think you are very stupid and not only that but you lied also!
Only troll here is you and I proved my point!

 

Well, if so then it's just another proof of how overrated raw punching power is. Cleveland was dangerous for sure, but nothing special as a KO artist. Liston was much better at stopping his opponents. To be honest, there are plenty of HW fighters better than him at that.

 

With the obvious exceptions on that list, who among them would Marciano or his best opponents be hopeless against? In fact, you can outright favor Marciano against them. Would Alvin Lewis or Sylvester Jones be favored vs a 52 Rocky by any Vegas gambler?

Also, how many top 10 176-199 pound top 10 heavies did he have the opportunity to fight and beat and if not, why wasn't he fighting top 10 guys, I'm curious to know? Because if he were that good, he should have been right up in the top 10 mix during his prime?

 

I said the average sized heavy. Not every heavy. It certainly wasn't today's average of 215 pounds and the size of heavies didn't drastically jump from 1952-55 when Rocky was champion and from 56-59 when Williams was a bigger name.

 

lol

Satterfield was 6'2" Rocky was at most 5'10". That is at least a 4 inch height differential.

 

Tbh I think he's the worst poster here who takes himself seriously. Aggrivatingly bad.

 

I don't think the average heavy was 185lbs, which is my point.