1952 Rocky Marciano vs 1960 Cleveland Williams

I wholeheartedly agree about that. Ali was at his peak regardless of Williams' condition. But when people point out Williams losses to the absolute nobodies of boxing in the late 60s and early 70s, it's sickening. Who would not beat a 40-year old man with an atrophied leg?

 

Yes It is!
Picture of Satterfield and LaMotta/Valdes is proving my point that Satterfield was 6ft or under that but you and McVey are trying to nake gim bigger than he was!

 

People like inmemoryofjakelamotta, choklab, and serbianloudmouth (most moronic poster these boards have ever seen) are disingenuously using it to tear down Williams.

 

Don't worry. I'll save you the trouble. "Satterfield was very impressed with Williams and rated him as a potential champion. "he's the first guy to hurt me with a left jab. "and the kid can hit. if he had ever nailed me he probably would have knocked me four rows back."

"he's got plenty of heart and that's the big thing. I hit him some real hard punches in the second round and he just came back"

Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/510...msTGHDA4kkoOhgjXxbKfW6Ja0z5E6sKHcgwvV_TdLXYZc

"The fight was a corker while it lasted. Williams, a huge fellow and a game one won the first round with a jolting left jab -- following his pre-fight instructions perfectly."

"In the second round he stood up under two booming right hands from Satterfield."

"he tried to slug with Satterfield in the third round and landed a good left hook. He was shaken up by Satterfield's countering left hook and floored with an overhand right. He took an 8 count and got up"

Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/53148333/the-miami-news/

"but why didn't you stay behind that left? You had him going. In an other 3 rounds he'd have been all set up for you." Cleveland shrugged. "I thought I could knock him out Mr. Lou."

Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/53148390/the-miami-news/

Seems like Williams put up quite the fight for a 20 year old, green, untested, and last minute substitute against a dangerous fighter and was maybe even on the verge of pulling off an upset before getting overconfident and excited after hurting his opponent (not uncommon among rookies).

 

I second the motion,,,,your resolution passes.

 

I do agree that they seem to have an agenda against Williams, but they're not half bad guys. At least they don't try to rip ur head off 4 disagreeing. That serbianloudmouth is quite a joker tho. Yesterday he was trying to tell me about the many knockdowns of Ernie Terrell's career. Bob Foster, Muhammad Ali, and Manuel Ramos all knocked Terrell down. Funny, I don't remember seeing that in the footage (lol).

 

Agreed. At least Chok and Lamotta put effort into their posts. SerbianLoudMouth is just an idiot.

Just like his claim that Bob Foster knocked out Ernie Terrell. Out and out lies even when film clearly and easily expose it.

 

I’d say Archie Moore maybe didn’t hit a single punch as hard but strength and counter punch ability puts him at a similar level. Layne was a decent banger when he fought him. Old Louis didn’t have the reaction speed he used to but I’m sure he still had some power left. All in all Moore knocked out better completion then Williams ever beat.

 

I don't think anyone does lol!

 

Correct. A .357 slug did. Excellent observation!

 

Again, just stupid. If Williams is such a superman, then why was he knocked out against Satterfield? Why did he lose to Sylvester Jones? Why only a draw against Machon?

He wasn't that good. He wasn't in Rocky's league.

And no, he was not faster than Marciano, who was actually a defensive master, as we will establish with quotes from his own opponents.

Miteff was 23-8 when he fought Williams. Fringe contender. A Bert Cooper or Derrick Chisora.

Betha was 19-9 when Miteff beat him.

Valez already had 14 losses.

Just stop. You are making a case for Miteff's MEDIOCRITY, and thus, for Williams'. It is a wee bit sad. That you are throwing these names around as if they were legends.

It is true to anyone with a brain. It is true to Foreman, who ranks him #2. It is true to Ali, who named him as the toughest fight he could have. It was true to Frazier who said he would beat Ali.

And how dare you mention that buffoon Larry Holmes, who never unified, never rematched dodgy decision, and didn't fight his #1 contender? There is no argument to be made for Holmes over Marciano unless you think beating the Tex Cobbs and Evangelistas of boxing while running as fast as you can from Greg Page and Pinklon Thomas is something to be proud of.

Do you even know who you are talking about? Let's quote the greats and a few others about Marciano's power, defense, stamina, and greatness, and have no more of this stupid **** about Cleveland Williams:

JOE LOUIS
"It hurt to bump into him....He hits harder than Max Schmeling...this kid is tough enough to beat anyone."

"The Rock didn't know too much about the boxing book, but it wasn't a book he hit me with. It was a whole library of bone crushers."

"I had a bad weakness kept hid throughout my career. I didn't like to be crowded, and Marciano always crowded his opponents. That's why I say I could never beat him."

"He's a good fighter. Better than most people realize. He's strong and young and hard to hit."

"Rocky was a very deceiving guy. He was not easy to hit."


MUHAMMED ALI
“I could have beaten all of those guys, except for maybe Marciano.”


“When I was 14 years old and listening to the radio and I heard the announcer, ‘.and still champion of the whole world, Rocky Marciano..’ I knew I wanted to be champion someday. He was a big influence in the start of my career.”


"Ooo he hit hard. He hit you so hard it'd jar your kin folks in Africa...it'd been rough...I truly think on my best day and his best day I would have beaten him...I think he was better than Joe Frazier, I truly think he was better than Joe Frazier and you know what Joe Frazier did to me...I think it would be even, he may have won. It's just hard...In his heyday, he may have won. It's up to the imagination.


(When asked who would have given him the most trouble)
"Rocky Marciano...He would be the most trouble I think...Rocky Marciano."


ACHIE MOORE
(When asked which punch hurt him most)
"Man they all hurt."

"After a fight with Marciano, it felt like you had been beat all over the upper body with a black jack or hit with rocks."


"He could hurt you sure, but it was the quantity of his punches. He just had more stamina than anyone else in those days. He was like a bull with gloves."


JERSEY JOE WALCOTT
"Joe could take you out with combinations...Marciano was a one-punch artist. He threw every punch like you throw a baseball, as hard as he could. I have to say, with all respect to Joe, Marciano hit harder."

“I liked that title. I didn’t want to lose it to anybody, but if I had to lose it, I’m glad I lost it to you. You’re a good fighter and gonna be a great champ.”


EZZARD CHARLES:
"Rocky numbs you all over. Wherever he hits you, he hurts you; on the arms, the shoulders, the neck and the head."


JACK DEMPSEY
"What everyone forgets is that Marciano can punch harder with a right hand than any modern-day heavyweight. In his first fight with Walcott, Rocky needed only one blow to win the title. The power in his right scrambled Jersey Joe's brains at Chicago."

"I've scored my share of knockouts along the way, but more often than not my opponents got up after being knocked down and had to be knocked down repeatedly. The same is true of Joe Louis. But Marciano needs only one solid smash and it's all over. That's why I say Rocky Marciano is the hardest-hitting heavyweight champion I have seen."


GEORGE FOREMAN
I rank “Joe Louis 1, Marciano 2” Marciano retired undefeated. No other heavies has ever done it;


JOE FRAZIER
“Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Rocky Marciano is second only to Louis. Where do I rate Ali? Somewhere below me. I beat him, and if I could beat him, no doubt Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano could have beaten him.”



FLOYD PATTERSON
"He was the most determined heavyweight I have ever seen in my life. That man got in the ring and there was no way he was going to lose... Determination is based in the mind. How far can you go? What is your limit? With Marciano there was no limit."


ROLAND LASTARZA
"In defense. It was harder to get at him ... Rocky fools you. He doesn't take as much punishment as it seems. He looks easy to hit inside but he isn't."

"I would throw a hard punch, then he would throw a hard punch. The difference was that Rocky would throw 10 more. He just never stopped throwing punches."


CHARILE GOLDMAN
"He ain't as easy to hit as they say. Rocky rolls under punches and he weaves under punches ... He protects his belly by blocking with his elbows.


ANEGELO DUNDEE
"Rocky was a very deceiving guy. He was not easy to hit."


KNEENE SIMMONS
"He fools you. When you look at him from outside the ring he seems easy to hit ... But if you're in the ring with him you find this isn't the case ... His head is bobbing and he's crouched low, so low in fact that you can't get a clear shot at him."


"Marciano is a good puncher and he's hard to hit. He has a funny style."


HARRY "KID" MATHEWS
"He was a great puncher, one of the best of all-time. He just threw one punch after another, and all of them were hard."


PHIL MUSCATO
"Dan, I can still feel his punches. He kept punching me in the upper arms until I could no longer hold them up to defend or throw punches".


BERNIE REYNOLDS
"He had amazing strength. Any time Marciano hit you, he could hurt you. He didn't do much flicking; every punch was a knockout punch."


DOC KEARNS
"Marciano hits harder than Jack Dempsey did"


FERDIE PACHECO
"He was chastised by the press every time he fought as being a Neanderthal, no concept of boxing, who was going to get beat as soon as he got in with someone who could box, who was gonna make him look silly…It took a long time for the boxing scribes to realize they were in the presence of sheer power."

 

Yeah I know that they didn't beat Williams at his best but my point was, I'd favor Marciano over all of Williams conquerors save Ali or Liston.

I'm also not so sure he'd have beaten Patterson. Ingo hit hard enough to stop Patterson but lost to him 2/3 times. And the best I think he does vs Rocky frankly is an early round knock down.

Also, a common opponent of Rocky and Williams, I forget who, said that in his opinion, Rocky hit harder than the hard punching Williams.

 

Or lack of talent

 

Well stated

 

Cleveland early or Marciano late is the sensible betting. If Moore/Walcott can put you down though, Cleveland could leave you unconcious