And there are a lot of good arguments against some of those points, for instance what @Sangria wrote above. But to me that's the value of a forum, learning what other people think. Especially when their thoughts are presented thoughtfully and well, as the abovementioned Sangria did.
I think the first Lewis-Holy fight was closer than most people seem to think. But not sure on Holy outright winning. I personally had Lewis ahead by two points last time I watched it. This content is protected I have trouble with some of the names on the first list (especially McCall, who seemed too mentally messed up to be considered honestly courageous and willful...and I need to rewatch some videos of Liston before I'm convinced regarding his inclusion). Tyson was tough, I think it's just because he was so ridiculously dominating in the 8os that we didn't really see him get the chance to come up off the floor or charge back to win when he was losing. Of course. the Douglas fight (no excuses) upset the applecart in a big way. Not sure about Thomas being as tough either, though he did do as Mike did and kept walking back into borderline torture porn fights (the Holy and especially the Bowe fights were examples of outrageous courage, I'll give you that).
Are you referring to the first fight with Lewis or the second one? I believe you're getting them mixed up my friend.
Yeah apparently!!?? Somewhere in this thread someone said Holmes had the greatest chin of all time ....... Holmes tough as hell check, heart of a warrior check, ability to overcome adversity check, Ability to come back from knock downs and win check, best chin NO.... Tyson had IRON in his chin! He only went to the canvas when past his prime or after taking a severe beating (Douglas) and even when past his prime it took severe beatings to stop him.
That's not true, some on here would kill if you proposed than anybody could beat Tyson. Btw RulesMakeItInteresting, I already broke my no Tyson fantasy matches policy. Sorry.
Well, we might be in a bit of a disagreement here, my friend. Some of the folks here just plain call Mike their favorite fighter, and I sympathize with that. Larry is my favorite, and I already know I vigorously defend him more than I should. That's just love, and to me people are pretty darn easy to forgive for staunchly defending what they love. I used to think that people who figured Mike would beat the older greats were underinformed, but it turns out more than a few of them like @Sangria are much more educated than some might think and can be very thought provoking in their posts. People like him helped me give Mike a much closer look, and that look ended up with me valuing him far more as a fighter, and putting him at a firm #10 ATG at heavy. If people are disagreeing with you, my friend, that doesn't have to affect you at all, unless you will it that way. But please (and I understand you probably already do this) try to take the time to see it their way. It can really make your time here more valuable. All the best, William.
I agree. I think a lot of fighters would beat Tyson, and I don't mind that others disagree with me. I just don't like how mad people get when I say that somebody else would beat him and why. The thing that ticks me off the most about the Tyson camp is that a lot of them don't say why Tyson would win, and to me that's like admitting he wouldn't. Sangria is the best Tyson fan for sure. He makes me defend my position. Very well-informed tough guy to debate. Would like to see more people like him. Even though I disagree with him, he makes valid points.
And Weaver had Tyson-level power. But Larry did have a really horrible cold (listen to his voice after the fight, that guy was sick as a dog) and he still ended up knocking him silly. It would have been entirely different if Larry had been not sick and, probably most importantly, not underestimated him. A completely psyched out Larry, fully prepared mentally, is on display against Ali and Leon and Shavers I. And he was magnificent imo. The guy who beat Leon would have had Mike out in 10 or under.
It took Holmes 11 rounds to ko Shavers and he failed to Ko him in the first fight. What makes you believe he would've knocked out Tyson in 10 rounds or under.
For one excellent reason, because it took lame ass Buster Douglas 10 rounds. Buster Douglas was nowhere near prime Larry Holmes, even in his best dreams. And no excuses as far as Mike goes, he was undefeated, riding a wave of stellar successes, and truly seemed unbeatable at that time. He lost that fight fair and square...to a total loser who just happened to have a lot of determination. When it came to championship determination and courage, look no farther than Larry Holmes. Watch the 9th round of Witherspoon, the 15th round of Norton. 7th round of Shavers II, hell, the 9th round of McCall. Absolutely no offense to you and your opinion, my friend. I respect that you disagree, and you may very well be right. But, though Mike was known for being generous and humble on and off, I agree with him that he wouldn't have stood a chance against the Legendary Larry Holmes. I do think Mike could have knocked him down, however, and done better than Shavers and Weaver overall. That is, I think Larry would have taken some serious punishment at several points in the fight. But the heart of Larry Holmes is up there with Ali and Holyfield. He never quit. Mike, though a great fighter with an undeniable heart, was lesser in the most important qualities (even if those qualities might only be most important to certain people, like me lol!). Again, all respect to you. I could be completely wrong. That's just how I see it, and I have no desire to argue over it, I'd rather just respect everyone's opinions.
Larry really got up for that fight in the 12th round. It was a desperation move...but Mike was ruined by it. An incredible shot from a guy who isn't known for his punching at all. I'll never forget HOW sick Larry sounded in the postfight interview.
