So the ranking of evangelista and quarry were "jokes" but the place of leotis in the ranking when he fought liston was fine right? . lol. Please...
In his prime id pick Liston over both of them . Old Liston V Frazier would have been a fun fight imo Heard Frazier camp wanted none of that. Idk if that’s true
The fun fight would be the beating that old liston would have taken , even prime vs prime it is not given that Liston would have beaten Frazier
I’d pick Joe over old Liston and I would t count joe out from beating anyone...unless their name is Foreman
Yes, Quarry's number-one ranking was a complete JOKE. At NO point in his career was Jerry Quarry the second-best heavyweight on the planet. None. Frazier had stopped him. Chuvalo had stopped him. Ellis had beaten him. Ali hadn't fought in three and a half years, and Quarry couldn't last into the fourth round against him. Absolute joke.
You’re telling me a guy with wins over Patterson Shavers Lyle Mathis Foster London Middleton And more was a joke? Those wins are better then most Hw champs resumes. Have to disagree with you he deserves his ranking and acclaim as to the excellent fighter he was.
At no point was Jerry Quarry ever the second-best heavyweight in the world. Yes, his #1 contender ranking in 1970 was a joke. Do you think he was the second-best heavyweight in 1970? Between June 1969 and October 1970, he was stopped three times. It was a terrible rating.
Hadn't Martin lost to Billy Walker at that stage ? I think he was already on the way down. There were rumours about a serious drug problem too.
Leotis Martin was rated #7 when he got off the floor to stop Liston, who was rated #5. Chuvalo had already lost to Howard King, Bob Baker, Pat McMurtry, Pete Rademacher, Bob Cleroux (twice), Joe Erskine, Zora Folley, Floyd Patterson, Ernie Terrell, Muhammad Ali, Eduordo Corletti, Oscar Bonavena, Joe Frazier and had lost to Buster Mathis earlier in the year ... and he was rated #4 when he knocked out Quarry a week later. This clearly wasn't an era where you had to be unbeaten to get ranked.
Had Sonny lived and fought on he would have had about 4 rounds in him. Lord knows how old he actually was, certainly in his 40's. He was no longer a good trainer and his lifestyle was eroding his skills. He was very, very slow on his feet and, although his jab still carried authority and was accurate, he looked like he was punching under water. Maybe Buster Mathis would have been slow enough for Sonny to pin down and hit but virtually all the other contenders would have out lasted him or out speeded him.
But Foreman has a much cleaner outside of the ring lifestyle than Liston did. His biggest vice was pork chops. Foreman, like his other mentor, Archie Moore, aged exceptionally well
Unbeaten records only tell us about a Fighter's level of opposition Dubble, I'm sure we agree on that. Brave as he was, (and he was !), Billy was never World Class.
The "how old was Liston" stuff is tired. Liston lost one fight in six years, to a ranked fighter, who he had on the deck earlier in the bout. Liston had lost to TWO men over a span of 16 years (1954 to 1970) - Ali and Martin. In his last fight in 1970, Liston obliterated Wepner (broken nose, broken cheek, 72 stitches), who was a ranked contender as late as 1976. Liston also had stoppage wins over Patterson, who was ranked up to his retirement in 1972 and Henry Clark, who was highly ranked as late as 1976, when Shavers stopped him in an eliminator on the Ali-Norton III undercard. People dismissing Liston just have no idea what they are talking about. If Liston hadn't died of a drug overdose, he remains a top 10 fighter for a while.
Walker never beat Martin. Sonny Liston was world class. The only guy, other than Martin, who beat Liston over a 16-year span was Ali. People around here seem to want to pick Liston and Martin apart. Meanwhile, Quarry, who never beat anyone as good as Liston, and Chuvalo, who lost to everyone but managed to beat Quarry, are freaking world beaters on this site.