Prime Larry Holmes vs Mike Tyson

I respect your list...but I'm not entirely sure at all on Dempsey, McCall, or Mercer. Bowe would have been no joke against prime Mike...it's just that Bowe took a LOT of shots.

That said, the Holyfield Bowe (I) was unquestionably a great heavyweight imo. Just overall nowhere near the ATG Mike, Holy, or Lewis was.

Still, all respect to your opinion.

 

That would have been interesting. I don't think Buster would have lasted the distance, though.

Larry's overhand right did really well against opponents his height or taller. Buster would have been hit even more than he did against Mike.

And I did watch the Douglas fight again. Mike showed courage, but mostly he seemed as if he felt like he was dreaming the fight. As if the fight was happening to someone else. Dissassociation (forgive if I spelled it wrong).

But hey, no excuses. He lost, really bad, to a mediocre fighter. At the height of his powers. He didn't drop off in quality when Cus died, so how could he when he lost a lesser trainer than Cus?

Mike was the baddest man on the planet, considered unbeatable by most boxing experts. He couldn't deal with a guy who was driven by the death of his mother to succeed, who had his heart totally in the fight. Larry Holmes fought like that a LOT, with his whole heart. He had a lot of contenders who pushed him hard, knocked him down and nearly out....he came back.

Mike's loss against Holy I reinforces my point. Wasn't THAT long after, and Mike was what, 29, 30?

Again, no offense to Iron Mike fans, I'm one.

 

Yeah but Holmes had the flu that night...

 

Funny how Holmes never had the flu or a bad arm when he fought Lorenzo Zanon, Tex Cobb or Leon Spinks. I wonder what he had the night Renaldo Snipes knocked him down and had him staggering around the ring (a lot of refs would have waved it off). Or the night he needed a very controversial decision to eek past a novice 15-0 Tim Witherspoon. Or the night he went life and death with a 13-1 Bonecrusher. Or the night he got busted up and needed another very controversial decision to eek past Carl Williams (who was obliterated by one Mike Weaver soon afterwards). Or the night he lost his title to a light-heavy who had never fought at heavyweight before (we all know what happened to him). Then in the next post they'll complain about Tyson's excuses.

 

Sure, but Chuvalo did withstand onslaughts from guys we know Tyson couldn't beat.

 

Like whom?

 

You've obviously never seen a boxing match in your life.

 

I can say with confidence Ali and Foreman. Ali easily outboxed so many punchers that were better than Tyson. And even Tyson cannot outslug the Master Brawler.

 

Chuvalo was stopped by the best two punchers he faced in three and four rounds. Chuvalo lost to Eduardo Corletti, Pete Rademacher, Buster Mathis, Howard King, Pat McMurty, Bob Cleroux, Ernie Terrell and Joe Erskine, amongst others, but he beats Mike Tyson?

 

You're reading the records, but not thinking. Frazier and Foreman stopped him on CUTS. He was green vs. Rademacher, King, and McMurtry, and was disqualified vs. Erskine. The Terrell decision was questionable too. But I've been rethinking it, and I really don't see Chuvalo winning. I just don't see Tyson STOPPING him anyway except on cuts.

 

He was stopped because they were beating the hell out of him, not because of cuts. Frazier fractured his cheekbone. Against Foreman, Chuvalo's manager was screaming at the ref to stop it, not because of a cut. They were literally teeing off on him. Chuvalo wasn't hard to find, and anyone Tyson could find isn't likely to last long. Even the toughest of men have their limits.

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I assume he had the flu the round Snipes knocked him down, but rallied back like a boss and made a full recovery between rounds. He probably had a few consecutive bouts of flu in the Witherspoon and Weaver matches as well. God knows what he had in the Tyson fight. Probably something terminal.

I mean if Holmes had one or two of these off nights I'd be prepared to cut him some slack. But the list of fighters who gave him issues that he should have, on paper, blown away is far too high to be accounted as fluke. Tyson would have more likely than not have caught a prime Holmes at some point. The question then becomes, would Holmes have survived to rally back? Possibly, but I think the odds are more stacked towards Tyson finishing the job, just perhaps a few rounds later than he actually did in 88.

 

So what that's his problem. Is Rooney in the ring fighting with him lol. Tyson has worked with some of the best trainers in the biz including Holmes's trainer Richie Giachetti. Who else did Rooney train that made him so special? It boiled down to the fighter.

 

I actually shudder to think just how badly Tyson would have messed Chuvalo up had they fought. Chuvalo would be in danger of receiving permanent damage if he didn't go down at some point. I think he would have done, in and around the same timeframe as the Frazier and Foreman fights.