Because Mike was really young, at the top of his game, had proven himself against both punchers and boxers. What he did in the late 80s was fantastic by any standards. Losing Rooney was not as bad as losing D'Amato, anyone knows that. Nowhere near. He took Cus' passing and became a superstar. Losing Rooney made him a loser? I have a hard time believing that. Larry Holmes completely underestimated Mike Weaver, to the point he even took the fight with a horrible flu (a more than provable fact, watch the postfight). He was getting beat on several occasions, even dropped. He looked bad through most of that fight. And at the time, Holmes was considered the best in the world, guys like Tate were still relatively new and unproven, Ali and Foreman were out of the picture, Norton got his head kicked in by Shavers. Holmes dug in and won, resoundlingly so. Iron Mike lost. Bad. I mean no disrespect, Shahpoor, you've made some really good points.
I'll write a respond tommorow when i get on my pc but thank you for keeping this conversation professional!
All records will say that Frazier stopped Chuvalo on cuts. Chuvalo was not taking a horrible pounding by Frazier when they stopped the fight, and Chuvalo was probably ahead slightly imo. But why continue the argument? I already conceded the Chuvalo-Tyson debate to you. Tyson is the more likely victor.
more cherry picking. Lots of tough fighters in history have been knocked out early. Joe Frazier hit harder than Johansson, and Machen nearly survived the 10-round beating he took from him.
Holmes wasn't really a great defensive master, he was just a great athlete. He was incredibly fast and tough, he had an awesome jab, he was very mobile, had a good right uppercut and overhand, and good stamina. He did not have a good ring IQ really.
Don't let it get to you, William. You're too smart to not know this is a place for opinions. @Shahpoor Saiq has had some good points. But it's true, sometimes excuses get bandied about. I don't know for sure about everybody else, but I love my favorite fighters, so I defend them when I feel someone is writing without certain insights. But ultimately I like what I like, and contesting things endlessly can be a frustrating, essentially losing game that sometimes isn't worth it. A lot of the time I'll just pass and let people vent on their own. Sometimes my mind gets changed, for instance I admire Iron Mike WAY more as a fighter now than I did when I first got to this forum. Also, most recently Liston (who I saw as a heartless robot...not entirely true, he was a great fighter). But when it comes to my faves: Larry, Big George, Ali...I believe what I believe, and I like to think I know a bit about the sport.
Shapoor Saiq is a good one, and I hope he knows he's not part of the rest of the uninformed group. I really don't have as much against Tyson as people think, it's the people who like Tyson that bother me. Some of them are pretty rude and many of them are too confident in Mike's abilities and don't really defend him adequately. Thumbs up to Sangria and Shapoor Saiq.
Wow Machen was knocked out in the first round by Ingo? He'd never go the distance with a peak Sonny Liston.
