James Jeffries vs Deontay Wilder

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by 70sFan865, Jun 15, 2020.


Who would have won?

  1. James J. Jeffries

    38.3%
  2. Deontay Wilder

    61.7%
  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    My criteria might seem harsh, but we are comparing him to an all time great here.

    Let's look at it another way.

    How would you see Wilder's resume comparing to that of Vitally Klitschko, or Alexander Povetkin, or Anthony Joshua.

    Wouldn't his resume look somewhat thin then?
     
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  2. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Oh please. Even Wilder's 'worst' title challenger (Molina) got a title shot after that against Anthony Joshua.

    Who did John Finnegan get a title shot against after Jeffries defended against him?
     
  3. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jeffries was the fourth heavyweight champion. Compared to the first five heavyweight champions, he stood out.

    It's fine to honor pioneers.

    But there have been 120 years of champions since Jeffries. His opponents don't hold up head to head anymore. He was the size of a modern heavyweight, his opponents were the size of middleweights, and even then he normally got his face beat in until he finally wore them out.

    Even what we can see of his wins, he wasn't anything to write home about compared to the fighters over the last 120 years.

    Don't treat him like an idol and hold others to different standards.

    Using the same standards, Jeffries doesn't measure up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Then don't question his power,simple really.
     
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  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Then don't question his power,simple really. Wilder has ko'd Ortiz twice he was top ten ranked,anyone else managed to do it?
     
  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Why are we talking about Joshua Vitali and Povetkin? Do you mind addressing the hypocrisy in praising jeff beating smaller older men and bashing wilder for beating bigger, younger men?

    To answer your question, his resume is better than Povetkin, Vitali is slightly ahead and Joshua ahead. You could argue all 4 of them have more impressive wins than Jefferies.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No clue.

    I didn't actually think Molina was too bad. The timing was good. Made it look like he was going to play the "one for me one for you" game. And he managed to fight a legitimate top ten guy in the fight before scooping up his belt. So I was horrified by Molina as an opponent, but i at least understood.

    But then it was Duhaupas. Pus? Pas. Dunno. Anyway, Duhaupas had actually lost to Erkan Teper :lol: six months before. That was a tragic, tragic defence.

    Then Szpilka. Didn't make the Fight News top ten (now defunct) not in the TBRB top ten, probably in an alphabet top ten where you can actually just pay for a ranking, don't know. But this is Wilder's best defence during the Embarrassment Years.

    Wilder's fourth defence was against Arelloa and in many ways was his most cynical. Two wins in his last six. Stiverne broke his nose. Stopped him in six in a rematch. Beat an unknown called Curtis Harper over eight rounds. Lucky end of a ten round draw with Fred Kassi. Very, very close split win over Travis Kauffman changed to an ND after Arreola got caught for recreational drugs, of course he got a fight with Wilder very next time out. Awful, awful match-making for a pre-eminent heavyweight.

    Next, Gerald Washington. Unranked (TBRB, RING, Fightnews, Boxing News, anyone serious) then Stiverne again, who had boxed ten rounds in about three years I think.

    Awful, just absolutely awful, like the defences of a very minor south American light-flyweight milking a belt. Very, very bad.

    I credit him since 2018, but those years were tragic, really awful.
     
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  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You didn't think Molina was too bad because Joshua fought him, too.

    Arreola had three WBC title shots. Washington was still ranked in the top 10 by the IBF until he lost in February THIS YEAR on the Fury-Wilder undercard. Szpilka was a late sub for Wilder, and even he beat Mariusz Wach, who the WBC "Interim" champ Whyte struggled to beat last time out.

    Wilder has fought the best competition of any top heavyweight in the last three years.

    Not a Mariusz Wach, Chazz Witherspoon, Rydell Booker, Bogdan Dinu, Sefer Seferi, Tom Schwarz, Shawndell Winters, Alexander Flores, Alex Leapai, or Andy Ruiz (four knockdown loss) in the bunch.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's pure fantasy. I have no time for Joshua. This is pretty typical of the paranoia your posting about Wilder brings forth. I explained why I thought Molina was ok in the post - if you want to reject that, fine, but don't make me a fan of a fighter I don't really like in defending your favourite.

    Is this supposed to stand as some sort of defence? Because it absolutely does not. These were pitiful, miserable defences for a supposed world champion.

    Agree.
     
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  10. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You bash Arreola but Molina was fine. Got it.

    If they'd only fought.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No, I didn't praise Molina, this is more fantasy.

    You seem to be struggling: here it is again in bigger letters.


    I didn't actually think Molina was too bad. The timing was good. Made it look like he was going to play the "one for me one for you" game.

    Some more help. Because Wilder fought Molina right behind Stiverne, and because Stiverne was a legitimately ranked fighter, I found Molina as a defense less pathetic at the time. It was still awful. But when a fighter fights a strong guy followed by a weak guy, it's less objectionable to me. It was still a pitiful, pitiful defence. And Wilder just fought one after the other, awful defence after awful defence.

    But to make myself absolutely clear, as I wrote in the post you've misrepresented so badly:

    I was horrified by Molina as an opponent

    If you actually want to understand my meaning (which i know you probably don't) you should fixate on this part of the post rather than the part you did.
     
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  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    My mistake.

    Molina wasn't too bad.

    But three-time title challenger, five years rated in the Ring top 10 Arreola was an embarrassment. Got it.

    If they'd only fought.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Molina was very, very, very bad. Atrocious. A pitiful defence. One of many Wilder staged.
     
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  14. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And even he got a second title shot ... against Joshua ... in Manchester Arena.

    Yes, Wilder's opponents were so awful. (LOL)

    Too bad Tom Schwarz hadn't risen to prominence yet. Or Shawndell. Or too bad Rydell Booker had returned from his 14-year retirement yet.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Criticism of the resumes of other heavyweights cannot hope to shield that atrocious level at which Wilder fought for much of his reign. We've had Joshua as persecution fantasy, Jeffries and now apparently Tyson Fury non-title fights.

    That the level at which Wilder defended his strap was indefensible, of course, is the reason your attempts at defences are so desperate.
     
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