I never said otherwise. I said he had trouble with them. Which he did. Myth. And also a lie, it was like 10-5 Duran, and Leonard was the only one who was hurt in that fight. Pea won so clearly coz Chavez's best days were 10lbs south of 147 and 6 years earlier. A prime Chavez gives Pea all he can handle too. Pea did so well vs Chavez BTW coz he's a southpaw and Chavez didn't deal with them well. A left hook specialist who didn't shift around Pea's lead foot well is never gonna do as well as someone who did shift well and threw some of the most insane lead parry/crosses ever. You've never even watched them lmao. Leonard would beat Pea so damn bad it'd be embarrassing. See my post above. Prime Duran beats Pea and Radar.
Pea was faded 34 when he fought oscar duran was 29 when he fought srl in that rematch, stop! Pea was faded and still arguably beat oscar while dropping him. Whereas duran quit at 29 against srl in the rematch.
Sure duran does he beat srl at 147. And at 147 hearns beats Montreal duran he will go to war with duran be first and beat him at his own game khtfo again.
I actually agree with this sort of and this isn't a comment on Duran or any specific fighter, but I am curious why people are willing to take fighter's best wins way past their prime but then immediately discredit losses past their prime too. I mean I do get it in a sense, obviously a fighter losing past their prime isn't indicative of their full capabilities but it always felt like a case of having your cake and eating it too. It's like the opposite of a catch 22 if I lose past my prime then I'm washed but if I win hell ****ing yeah I'm a god. It's like absolving yourself with the excuses but should you win you automatically hit the jackpot.
Pea whitaker dealt with pressure fighters easily in his career. He would have beaten jcc at 135 or 140. Duran liked to go to war when you didn't play his game he was beatable and he could be outboxed or he simply quit. Btw SRL by no means is a forgone conclusion of beating pea. Pea isn't an easy fight for anyone by the time srl figures out pea he would be down in the fight. He's never fought anyone like pea and no Bentitez is no pea whitaker. Bentitez would always give duran fits he doesn't like facing guys who wont play his game Bentitez outboxes any version of duran. Pea would frustrate outland and make duran quit at 135 140 or 147 you name it.
Best to ever do it dont lose to dejesus and quit against srl they beat srl 2x nor do they get put in a coma by hearns and schooled by benitez. Had be beat srl 2x beat hearns and bentitez and dejesus. You might have a case but he didnt and those loses i pointed out prevent him from being so. Where are all these excuses when it comes to other fighters i mean you can do the same with srl.
I'm not even trying to be controversial obviously these way past fights shouldn't factor into this hypothetical head to head matchup and it's why Roy Jones is a god in h2h matchups, but I think it's fair game to bring it up in a legacy argument idk. My take is if you're willing to fight way past your prime to bolster your legacy you should be willing to risk damaging it too if you take horrid losses. Obviously I'm a lot more sympathetic to broke fighters that just come back because they have no other way to make money, but in those cases it's obvious they're just fighting cause they have no other ways to make money and it's heartbreaking.
Ali would never quit Duran quit, he lost his hunger against a formidable opponent knowing he was going to get outboxed couldnt be bothered anymore Ali would rather die in the ring Ali is the greatest after Tyson Fury I will concede that Duran is more skillfull than Ali
Y'know he tried to? Twice... In the corner after the 5th vs Liston he said "I can't go out, I can't", and Dundee's quote back was: "this if for the championship, kid; you are going back out there". And obviously in the Thrilla in Manilla, literally said 'I want to quit', and Dundee told him to stop being a ***** again. Not saying he did have heart or anything, I just think it's interesting.
Your analysis is very interesting but there are a few points I must quibble with: 1. You refer to fights between Cervantes, Arguello, Pryor and Benitez in his prime. I think Duran’s prime was in the 70s and you can say Arguello and Pryor’s prime we’re in early to mid 80s. They were Junior Welterweights and he was a Lightweight the fact he did not move up in his prime to fight them is irrelevant in my opinion. We don’t mark Hagler down for being a career Middleweight nor do we overrate Pacquiao for fighting across 8 weight divisions. 2. I don’t accept the so called controversies in Ali wins over Frazier II and III, Young, Shavers and Liston II and Norton III. He won those fights against truly great fighters and with the exception of Liston II he was past his athletic prime. Unlike a Roy Jones Who when past his athletic prime and he could be hit had not the best chin, Ali we found out not only had championship heart but a grade A+ chin. Both are in my top 5 greatest of all time. I have Ali at number 1 with Duran between 3 and 4 Greatest of all time.
Well the fact is he did not because his trainer knew what he had in him. Angelo Dundee was a great trainer. Having the right trainer and coach can make all the difference.
