Joe Frazier in the Larry Holmes era

It would take longer IMO. The only one who would pulverize Frazier would be Trevor Berbick.

 

Joe had more heart, anyway.

Good post, Rules!

 

What was Joes main weakness style wise in your opinion George? Would you say big punchers have the better chance then skilled fighters at beating him.

 

Frazier is one of those guys who you needed to be able to stand your ground against. If you can hold your feet against him, and are physically gifted enough to stand with him (think Liston and Foreman obvs).

Someone like Joe excells vs fighters who want to move, since he can keep them overwhelmed, crowd them and out-work them.

Someone like Ron Lyle or Lamon Brewster would give him a much harder fight than someone like Chris Byrd or Jimmy Young. And that's why Mathis gave him a harder fight than Ellis did. Obviously none of them would beat him, but you get the type of guys I'm going for.

 

Not sure if you're joking here or you really think Berbick has a stylistic advantage. If it's the latter, then I think Berbick's become surprisingly overrated as of late. But I mostly suspect the former.

 

Berbick was a tough, strong hombre.

 

I think guys like Thomas, Spoon, Berbick, Bonecrusher, Bruno, Weaver, Coetzee and even Cooney could prove problematic for Joe Frazier. That's a tough gauntlet with some big dudes right there.

 

I think he’s either a champion or at worst the second best in the world

 

Frazier would beat all of them, berbick would probably give him the most trouble because he was basically a less powerful foreman, but hes still no foreman.

Frazier is the first man to t.k.o. Holmes probably late rounds after breaking his body.

Dokes hand speed could trouble Frazier, but I dont think it's a big enough factor to forget about a fraziers fight ending hook.

I agree with a previous poster that he probably goes undefeated until he meets Tyson.

 

Tyson would be his "Foreman"

 

Leroy Jones would have actually been a decent contender If he just got into shape. Dude was a big man who was undefeated in like 25 fights.

 

Frazier was the man hunt down slickers with not too much power. And he could do it round for round. In this case, he was pretty lucky to find a blue print of a picture perfect rival. A rival, who was way more special before he got the chance to meet him. Everything came at the right time: Ali was out for 3 years, Liston was finished, and after the own reign began to slow, exchanged by touring with the band, the powerhouse appeared on stage. Frazier was a product of timing. That might be the case for other champs too, but it seems that Fraziers time frame wasn´t that big to be honest.

Why did I wrote "not too much power"? Fraziers style was to some extend made of "I´ll hit you twice and you hit me trice, but I´m smoking this way for 15 rounds". Its not so much a problem of beeing a 205lb fighter, but more of not meeting to many rough HWs who would give him more respect with some heavy hands.

To be honest, I´m not very confident with Frazier meeting Cooney, Shavers, Smith, Witherspoon, young Bruno and Holmes (who for me had more power and threw better uppercuts than Ali). Imho Holmes stops Frazier. Put him into the 225lb 90s HW scene, and he´d bounce some more.

That said, I don´t think he´d rule for 6 years like he did over the reign of Holmes. 2nd best maybe, but he wasn´t the man to run 48-0 like Larry could.

The better question is: How far would Frazier go in the shoes of Larry Holmes?

 

This might make a very interesting topic imo.

 

I read somewhere that Ali gave a young Larry Holmes a black eye during a sparring session and Larry wore that black eye like a badge of courage in the 1970's.

 

He would be decapitated by Tyson or Foreman as he ages but by then he could have a record of something like 52-0? He would beat everyone Larry beat and Larry himself as many times as Larry steps into the ring and have a top 5 resume.