Fighters Who Are Bad People

What are your thoughts on Orban? I'm personally a huge fan.

 

I'm proud of you for having thoughts.

 

I'm sure your comrades are proud of you too. I personally think your a p#### though and a coward

 

I think we've Bogarted our own topic into trying to determine which one's of us "are bad people".

 

A lotta folk don't know the difference between 'your' and 'you're.' It's the ones who also get both of those confused with 'yore' that it gets truly special. And we're not there yet, from what I've skimmed. But we're close.

 

CJ is not even a troll I think he’s plain stupid.

 

Hey Tipsey, who the hell are you, and why don't you take your cranky, argumentive ass somewhere else, and start some **** with someone else...who the **** needs you anyway?

 

An argumentative form of communication is one of the pillars of a forum such as this my friend.. It's not my fault you can't deal with honesty being presented to you and your first reaction is to try and make me leave while swearing, it's childlike and a more dishonest form of giving up than raising a white flag.

All i'm attempting to do is show you how your constant and only sometimes subtle obsession with defending a murderer is disgusting. Like I said in my long reply to you, if it was only in boxing that you defended him, fine, but you have this need to defend his character like you did here again. When one can't defend someone or themselves for their obviously shitty character they must instead bring to light someone worse to divert the attention away. It is so sad. It is even sadder that this isn't even for you.

I will leave this here again as it can be attached to any post you make about Monzon and clearly show who you really are, as well as who you are when it comes to him. It would be good for you to read it again as well as you clearly did not take anything away from it, and cannot stop this sick idolization and compulsion with defending him from obscuring your ability to be a level-headed human being on something as simple as a boxing forum.

"Surely you must notice your own hypocritical nature. Just as profound a prejudice as letting something negative about someone effect the way they're judged positively, is letting a positive aspect of them effect the way you view someone when they're presented in a negative light.


I've been posting/reading this forum for years. I know when I see you post I expect a bias towards your favorite fighter in any different context, especially anything to do with Monzon. Now I don't doubt that this is the problem with every person on any forum when expressing their views to some level, it's inherent in any perspective, hence perspective.

But someone as flagrantly obvious with it as you, please do not make the mistake of not seeing your own profound prejudice while throwing others perspective on this topic and some other topics into question. Ye so high and mighty, standing upon your hill built of what you judge as bad, like a conqueror, shouting over others what not to do, the man does not realize his hill is higher not to preach, but because he has falsely climbed what he preaches but does not practice, this is the hypocrite.


Monzon was an absolutely marvelous fighter. From what was publicly shown about his private life he seemed like a horrible human being and he ended up in jail due to his actions, I hope he accepted his part in it, it doesn't seem like some of his "fans" have stopped trying to deny that part of him yet. For something as trivial as boxing when it's compared to life and death, your protection of Monzons corpse is disgusting. It seems you are a hypocrite which leads you either knowingly or unknowingly to being a hider, or an excuse maker for him, both inside and outside of boxing. And for something so simple as an aesthetic, for the idea of a man who was great at a sport, a handsome movie star that smoked cigs while running and bedding women. Is this view you hold him so highly in really so important and so fragile that you need to constantly jump the trigger and discredit viewpoints that mention Monzon as something other than what you like to imagine him as. Discrediting and therefor extinguishing any alternate viewpoints only leads you to solidify your own. While I think most are capable of coming to an even handed view of Monzon, I do not think you are and you haven't shown to ever do that.


For this topic, he was stoic as can be in terms of having a calm temperament when it came to such a violent sport. And the fact of his actions which the Stoics viewed as important in showing the true nature of a person over their words, showed that he became a great boxer, and like with any boxer he came with flaws and could be beaten. He also showed he was a woman beater and murdered a woman in a brutal animalistic way. His actions present him in a more true sense than anything else, your words and attempts to shed light only on his positives while trying to cover and deny the negatives is disgustingly dishonest, and shows your hero worship towards someone who can and should only be viewed as a hero in a very narrow light. One which you shine all too happily."

 

This topic is extremely telling, and although I haven't read much of this thread I think people can see through the thin veil between the moral character of a bad person and that of a person who defends these type of people.

For example Monzon is trashed on this thread (and for well deserving reasons) before his statue polisher can try and divert the well deserved dirt being thrown at Monzon.

"I mean the real degenerates, like Monzon"
"Seriously though, Carlos Monzon is the first to come to mind."
"Monzon"
"But the biggest pieces of **** boxers have all been mentioned already: Ayala, Monzon"
"Whereas Monzon it appears was an evil sociopath."

We can read his first reply as he wrote it or see what he's truly doing by mirroring the ultimate point of his writing.

Translated as
"Look here, Butler is worse and is still alive, I think he's worse than Monzon, of course only as a person, Monzons fistic worth far surpasses him. Please look somewhere else to insult someone and leave this dead man alone. I can't handle anything bad being said about this person even if it's about the murderer he was convicted as being. I have some weird personal stake in this man, he is my hero and his negatives will not see the light of day as long as i'm around to cover it up and divert the issue"

It's no more sophisticated than trying to divert someones gaze and thought by throwing sand in their eyes.

Yet this same person comes to the defense of another hero of his Emile Griffith, who in my opinion from what I know was not a bad guy and should not be thought of as such for being gay if that is what's happening, we can agree there. But this man who will subtly defend a murderer wherever he can and then a few messages later condemn those who insult another hero of his, is clearly in one of the most confused head spaces one can be in. Are you for gay rights and at the same time for women killing? Or ultimately are you showing your hand as being someone who is only for defending people you deem as your heroes regardless of what they do, simply because they fill some part of you with admiration and hope, or desire to be the same? Which in your selfish view cancels out him murdering a women and makes it okay for you to idolize him fully in every respect.

The reason none of us write the same on this forum is because the writing is us, its our minds it is ourselves being presented as clear as day. You're coming through your writing as a person not capable of seeing past all the fog you have around yourself. You should clear it by walking forward, past it, and not letting it cloud around you while all you become is one of the many throughout history that defend evil because of the selfish reasons that make you feel great, which ultimately just make you justify their evil actions however you can and as weakly as you can since no strong case can be made for evil, the defenders of evil are just the vultures that are left with only small scraps to use to defend these people, that's why your argument here is based off scraps and not gold, "Butler is worse, Monzon is dead, Monzon was a better boxer than Butler". Is there anything more pathetic. If the only way to defend a person is to point to someone who is disgusting as well but perhaps a bit more, that just illustrates how bad the original person is as well as showing how far someone can mentally jump through hoops to justify an evil person to themselves.

Watch for those that defend a person who has done bad. For whatever bad that person has done, they have often been forgiven by their defender through what they have done well. But if what they have done well compared to the extremity of their evil is not deserving for the forgiveness they are receiving, then the forgiveness is ultimately a smoke screen applied to weakly justify forgiveness, rather than being a just cause for the forgiveness.

 

LOL Thank you Youre opinion is invaluable. Now go bed little boy

 

You even talk like a neck beard.

 

Ive talked to an Argentinian who adamantly defended Monzon. He said the only witness to the crime was a homeless man who was later found with a bank account full of money. Also the media (Argentinian presumably) avoids talking to Monzon's last lawyer, Patricia Perello. Another thing to note is that none of Monzon's girlfriends have had issues with him - most of the controversy came from claims made by yellow press journalists, notably a Lucho Aviles, and none of the claims are backed by evidence that was stronger than hearsay.

One could look into this more closely if one had the ability to speak Spanish. I never bothered to because one, I dont speak Spanish, and two, I dont care that much to investigate the personal lives of entertainers. Imagine how limited ones taste in media would become if one was completely devoted to following only performers that were certainly of good character while disregarding those who were apparently unsuitable. And one can never be too sure of the moral standing of men one that does not know personally. Even then...

The world is populated with murderers, rapists, pedophiles, burglars, even those who dont like signing autographs. But sometimes these murderers and rapists write good songs, paint beautiful pictures, finish interesting novels and put up exciting fights. A fight does not become more entertaining if one of the participants has committed a murder, nor does it become less mundane if he has donated to charity

 

. Gee fella, you must really like to type. Lighten up...get a life and once again, try to understand that I never defended or condoned what Monzon did...the crime he committed. At the very least, maybe you need to start breaking your Prozacs in two, get off my tits, and quit stalking me, ok?

 

You are so full of **** Tip. Write another book trying to get people to see yr way. Red is a great poster & will be here long after yr long gone.

 

You do quite often and in subtle but obvious ways, is it not obvious that you don't see yourself do it because you are blind to this type of bias. It disgusts me seeing people like you subtly defending people who do things like this. The gap between a person who won't defend vile actions and one who will is much farther than the gap between those who commit vile actions and those that defend them.

Guess you really don't have an argument since you want to make it about me and not the subject, maybe try swearing for 50% of your reply again that's sure to work again... I'm living happily you don't need to worry about me, this is merely something I sparsely use and use to practice writing and theory on since why not, boxed ears is one of the only people using this forum in an original way, most here including you use it as a self circulating echo chamber to blindly present their biases, be original and post something that is worth another human being reading other than yourself.

And trust me, I have no intention to stalk you, quite the opposite, people like you should be avoided at all costs. Being sucked into your type of black hole of delusion is harmful to an honest good life and one that I am sure most will see as one to avoid, although you will no doubt have some equally blind people follow you, as follows with Morlocks. Besides, how big is your ego to see this as stalking instead of as what it truly is which is identifying a disgusting trait and thought pattern you constantly present and dismissing it through arguing with you about it. Did you ever grow up?

At least I can write at length about my way of seeing this, which shows I have actual ideas about my stance, neither of you can and result to insults, I wonder why... You two rely on a similar base with your defenses, a bond to a killer with Monzon, and you to Red with admiration for him being a great poster, which he clearly isn't, his bias is unbelievably obvious and his regurgitated posts might as well not even be posted by him, we all know exactly what he will say before he writes anything, he can be replaced with a basic computer using the same 100 word vocabulary and logic he presents.

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Either way, this can only be an interesting enough topic for so long, and it really passed after my replies to Red in another thread. His non reply and my message with everything that's been said here are enough to present the situation as clear as day, and I had no illusion about him changing his mind about this topic, people like this rarely do not.

All the luck to you, maybe one day Monzon will rise from the ashes with enough praying and polishing of his memory and you can be best friends, or really at best, you can become his stalker in real life like you have become online.