ATG LIGHTWEIGHT TOURNIE: ROUND 1, FIGHT 4 - SAMMY MANDELL UD15 PACKEY MCFARLAND

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Jun 22, 2020.


Who will win?

Poll closed Jun 25, 2020.
  1. MCFARLAND

    30.0%
  2. MANDELL

    70.0%
  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Something that strikes upon reading newspaper reports from the day after a Packey McFarland fight is how often words like “bewildered” and “uncertain” are used to describe the disposition of the opposition. McFarland was one of those rare wolves, so far ahead of the pack that sharing a ring with him promoted confusion. There was no comfort zone when boxing McFarland. His left hand was a scalpel but one that was wielded with evil intent, key in McFarland’s fifty stoppages. Fifty-six others dropped decisions or newspaper decisions; six scrambled draws. McFarland was always on the right side of those draws, however, and the one he posted in the National Sporting Club, London, in 1910 against Freddie Welsh was “unanimously declared the worst [decision] ever seen” there. Even those who bet on Welsh “joined in the demonstration.” Welsh, who as we have seen was fearless, ambitious and in love with the art, had no joy at all with McFarland; in fact he had dropped a decision to Packey two years earlier back in his native USA.

    The USA is where Packey had turned professional, probably in 1904. By 1907 there were those prepared to predict he would get the better of Joe Gans, a fighter he would sadly never meet, while he also enjoyed himself getting the better of the likes of Battling Nelson in exhibitions. He was still a teenager. Not a man who loved boxing, he was a man who absolutely excelled at it. What this led to is arguably the greatest paper record in history, 106-1-6. That single loss, if it occurred, was suffered against the otherwise unremarkable Dusty Miller who defeated him in an uncertain contest in the summer of 1904. He was sixteen years old. Miller had been a professional for five years.

    I say “if it occurred” because the bout is a matter of some controversy. Another fighter named “McFarland” was active at that time and the press of the day often listed Packey as undefeated. It may be the case that it will never be known, definitively, whether or not this fight took place and therefore it may be that it is never known whether or not McFarland was undefeated. His achievement, nevertheless, of going unbeaten after this fight is one of the most extraordinary feats ever achieved in the ring. McFarland kept to the same breakneck schedule as his most adventurous peers, fighting twenty-three times in 1912, eighteen times in 1911. The difference is he didn’t lose. And his competition was excellent. This may not have been the strongest of eras, but it had a wealth of fine fighters, men like Leach Cross (who beat Joe Rivers and Battling Nelson), Owen Moran (one of the few men accredited with beating Wolgast and Nelson both), a lightweight Jack Britton and also Jimmy Duffy (ranked here at #36) who according to one source “hadn’t landed ten punches in ten rounds” on McFarland.

    A fine chin likely barracked the McFarland defense, but it’s hard to be sure. He hardly ever got hit.

    The final word goes to one Joe Gans:

    “What I see in him,” he said, “is another Joe Gans.”
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    When Canzoneri first came calling upon the lightweight division in 1929, Sammy Mandell gave him a bloody good hiding for his temerity. It was not a close fight. According to the Associated Press, Mandell gave Canzoneri “the boxing lesson of his life.”

    Jimmy McLarnin was deemed ready for a title shot in 1928 having just obliterated Sid Terris, with whom readers of this series will be familiar. In but a single round, Mandell tore him into pieces, thrashed him blind in what the Associated Press named “the most important lightweight battle in the past five years.” Mandell had reigned for two of those years having taken the title from Rocky Kansas in 1926. Before being matched for the title he had slaughtered a red wall of ranked men, toughs like Jimmy Goodrich, Solly Seeman, Sid Barbarian and Terris, all of whom ranked in the top five at the time of their dispatch.

    Yet, in reading about boxing history it is possible to find tales of McLarnin and Canzoneri – and indeed, even of Petrolle – far more readily than it is to find stories about Sammy Mandell. He is listed neither upon the IBRO all-time top twenty, nor the top twenty-five at Boxing Scene. Having studied the lightweights it is my guess that Mandell is the most underrated of all of them, a true genius of a boxer who has hard to hit, quick to react and held so much poise as to perhaps be labelled liquid. Films show, quite clearly, that he was both faster and a more accurate puncher than McLarnin, at least at lightweight.
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    Who will win under the following rules?

    15 round fight.
    1920s referee.
    8oz boxing gloves.
    10 points must.

    Cast your vote and explain yourself in a post below! You have 3 days.
     
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  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Very interested to see what the forum will do about this one.
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I actually rate Mandell a whole lot higher than many posters on here.

    I am flabbergasted to see, so regularly, Angott rated above him.

    Mandell is a fine fighter. A wizard on the outside who can dance away from someone all night long.

    I mean he didn't one bomb Canzoneri, he didn't beat him with size, he outboxed him completely which just isn't something many people can do.

    He consistently found gaps in his defence and was too quick for the counters that came back at him.

    Conversely I actually find Packey McFarland one of the most over rated on this forum. It seems almost sacrilege to omit him from any top ten list, and his resume just doesn't warrant that imo.

    The only weakness of Mandell, imo is the lack of iron in his chin.

    That's a weakness I don't see Packey exploiting. My pick is Mandell in a very boring SD where little action occurs and regional newspapers say their man deserved the nod.
     
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  4. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Mandell does strike me as underrated. Getting Goodrich to come in overweight seems to have turnished his reputation, but there's been pleny more eggregious nonsense before and since.
     
  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Ignore it, probably. :smoking:

    I'm thinking McFarland is too versatile here. He can adapt to suit whatever Mandell does, and he's more than able to mix it up with Mandell on the inside, and more than able to out-box him at arm's length. I'm not all too educated on Mandell to do any further analysis, but I will say McFarland looks absolutely brilliant on film.
     
  6. Jester

    Jester Active Member Full Member

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    I think Mandell could outbox McFarland in a tactical chess match for the decision. Mandell's chin is probably good enough to take McFarland's power I reckon, and I see him being the more offensively active of the two which would probably influence the judges decision.
     
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  7. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Maybe McFarland
     
  8. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm going with Mandell in what is probably an upset, a win over Canzoneri is convincing
     
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree with you. He placed him under control which is impressive. If he couldn't do the same to Packey maybe he could get him under control for stretches that are long enough to take a decision.
     
  10. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree... and from what I've seen of him on film, he doesn't really look that special.

    I'll take Mandell on points in this one.
     
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  11. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ****, I don't know but thanks for the posts, Lads. Great one
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Sammy Mandell sprang an upset this first round out-working McFarland late to take a crisp unanimous decision in an absorbing contest that never hit the heights but that seemed, over eight, there for McFarland's taking. He couldn't quite shake Mandell however, and the "Rockford Sheik" did enough to stay in sight of the quick-footed McFarland. Late though, it seemed that Mandell had found his man and to the great surprise of many in attendance, Mandell closed out the fight with some flare and some ease, clearly winning five of the final six.
     
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  13. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's all there is to know about forum people's expertise in those times.
    And yes, I have done very extensive research on both of these fighters.