Leonard's decision to rematch a less than full strength Duran

He would probably have got stopped...he even admitted as much...because he was out of shape...!

 

Leonard stayed in shape, why couldn’t Duran?

 

So he didn't go on a bender celebrating and get out of shape? In other news Ali was an albino and Ruiz enjoys a salad.

 

So on the one hand, it's not Leonard's fault that Duran wasn't in shape, but on the other hand Duran was actually in great shape!

 

I never said he didn't go out on a bender. I'd be surprised if he didn't.

What the newspaper quotes clearly says is that he started training in good time for the fight and made weight without problems. Have you even read them?

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/duran-leonard-rematch-timeline.616387/

 

The irony!!

 

In forum debate, I find confirmation bias to be more prevalent than a crude, crowd psychology-level law of propaganda. Indeed, propaganda is more widespread in the sources, which researchers and debaters draw from.

Confirmation bias is much more subtle, however; operating across a spectrum, with the scope to be tailored to the individual, by the individual. For example, some people believe everything they read in the newspapers, just because they have been brought up believing that newspapers do not contain false information.

Others are more choosy and tend to gravitate towards information, which aligns and reinforces either what they already believe or that which they want to believe. At the same time, they will ignore related information, which does not fit within their belief model.


In terms of this debate, I am not sure why it is difficult for observers to accept that 'fair weather' reporting, from a fighter's training camp, is standard PR. (Ironically, PR is heavily rooted in the use of propaganda).

I mean, how often do we hear news from a boxer's camp, which indicates a materially negative impact on the fighter, during his training, that does not then, as a consequence, lead to a postponement or cancellation of the relevant bout?

Postponement/Cancellation, of course, translates into a loss of revenue for all concerned.

So, with what can be large sums of money at stake, it's not hard to understand why good news propaganda, no matter what the actual situation is, gets fed to the news media.


The irony here, and one that I do find particularly amusing, is that the propaganda being referred to in this debate, i.e. Eleta's reports on Duran, seems to also feed the confirmation bias of those, who believe everything was rosy in the Duran garden.

I will also add, that there are reports immediately, post-fight - not "many years later" - which support the notion that Duran had had issues in the build up to the bout. I wonder if these are the reports, which just don't fit the desired model... for some reason...

 

"I've been with him every morning when he does his five-mile run and rides the Lifecycle. I guarantee you, he is ready to fight."

"We know he's been working hard and is in shape."

That was what Buster Douglas' manager and trainer said, right before Buster showed up to fight Holyfield looking like a tub of goo.

 

Duran has no one to blame but himself. He should have committed himself to being in top shape instead of partying.

 

If you have read the quotes you will see that there are post-fight quotes by Arcel there. Those are the ones that really weigh heavily for me. Along with those that state that Duran was training already about three months before the fight.

But if you have other post-fight quotes, please post them. But excuses for Duran post fight naturally won't be more believable than praise for his shape pre-fight. Both can reasonably be viewed as propaganda.

That's why Arcel's post fight comments weigh so heavily for me. He has no reason at that stage to claim that Duran's preparations were better than they really were, but still he says that Duran prepared well.

 

A fine example of fair weather reporting, from a boxer's camp.

 

I think that it was a very shrewd move made in part by Angelo Dundee, who felt that Duran was living high on the hog with his victory in June, it was ruled a split decision, first fight. Leonard therefore trained hard, they came up with a different strategy, probably watched films of Duran's victories of Vilomar Fernandez and Lou Bizzaro, noting Roberto got frustrated at times chasing an opponent. In the rematch, more lateral movement was used, knowing Duran was not in the best physical and mental shape as in the first fight. There was more motivation on the part of Leonard, Duran fought him like in a sort of street fight type of fight in Montreal, Duran flipped off Sugar Ray and Juanita, called her a Street Walker in spanish, which is a huge insult to any man, those are fighting words, also Roberto as champion did not have to take the rematch.

 

It's willful ignorance at this point.

 

Right. The way these guys tell the story, you'd have to think that even if the members of the Duran conspiracy somehow managed to keep every single witness silent before the fight (including the many onlookers who raved about Duran's public sparring performances a week out), the immediate post-fight commentary would have had tons of references to Duran appearing to be in horrible shape. Instead...nothing.