Leonard's decision to rematch a less than full strength Duran

I mean technically you could say Duran never beat the best version of Leonard either since he had yet to become a well rounded, seasoned boxer and got suckered into fighting Duran's fight in the inside.

 

I do not know about that. I mean that is taking away from what Duran accomplished at Ray's weight. Ray wasn't green. Every boxer should learn something from every fight

 

This. Duran has NO EXCUSE for being a lazy excusemaker- he's my favorite fighter by the way- but Leonard has always been an ******* as well. Don't believe me? Watch that ******* in that self serving HBO documentary when his dick head highness Leonard went to Panama so DURAN could get closure for quitting. Leonard is such a self serving *******.

 

Green? He had beaten a GREAT fighter in Benitez before he fought Duran to win the 147 title. Anyone that says he was green when he fought Duran is being disengenuous.

 

Nowhere in my post did I say Leonard was "green". I simply said he had yet to become the best version of Leonard, which is a fact. Do you think Leonard did not improve at all in terms of skill after Montreal?

I'm not trying to take anything from Duran, I'm just saying two can play that game if we're gonna open up Pandora's box claiming Leonard never beat the best version of Duran.

It's also a fact Leonard was better on the outside than the inside and Duran knew that, so credit to him for playing his cards right.

 

Actually this is it in a nutshell.

 

Yes

 

Yes I know that. And I retract if I assumed you thought he was Green ... But as I said. Leonard did learn from the fight, or maybe Duran was just the better fighter that night. That said, no excuse for Leonard not being able to defend his best weight

 

I expect better from you Mendoza. If you think Duran was "getting stopped in 1-3 more rounds," you really need to watch the fight again. Leonard clearly deserved the victory, but watch the fight again.

 

This is one of the best posts I've ever read. Easily. Thank you CP.

 

True John. But I've as much respect for you as anyone on these boards, but do you honestly believe Duran was anywhere near close to his prime when he beat Barkley?

 

Yes Duran was the better fighter THAT night. He won fair and square. It's Leonard's fault if he got suckered into having an inside fight. I'm just saying Leonard had yet to become the best version of Leonard. That doesn't mean Im taking away from Duran's victory, it's simply an observable fact.

 

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with your suggestion that both pre-fight and post-fight comments about Duran's camp could reasonably be considered propaganda. However, this is only due to what happened in the ring that night - not so much something I would call a rule of thumb. This is also somewhat different to assuming one line of propaganda carries more weight than another.

However, on this occasion, Duran had unwittingly flung the proverbial manure at some very rapidly rotating blades, and the potential for a financial disaster, as well as significant reputational damage, loomed over him and his team. At this point, there were a lot of nervous, 'micro theories' put forward about what might have been the cause behind Duran’s behavior, while everyone tried to make sure that their fingerprints weren't inadvertently found on the metaphorical weapon of career suicide.

I also think, based on the above, that comments made on these events, years later, are as valid as any comments made at the time. The reason for this being that some distance has been put between them and the events in question.

Nevertheless, whereas you feel Arcel's comments add weight for your side of the debate (which I would dispute, primarily for the situational reasons outlined above), it is Dundee's post fight comments that not so much make my case, as they underline why I think Duran was hampered going into the ring on November 25, 1980.

Dundee was actually Duran's biggest defender, during the post-fight melee:

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Dundee knew something was wrong:

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I also find comments made by Carlos Eleta, more illuminating than anyone else on Duran's team.

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Eleta also seemed to hint at mistakes with Duran's intake, on the day of the fight...

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Eleta was asked: "

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More interesting to me, however, are comments made some years later by Eleta, when he tells Duran's biographer, Christian Giudice:

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The inference being that it would be better to lose to Leonard and make a shedload of cash, than it would be to blow it all on a perceived tune-up for relative peanuts. This, to me, smacks of good, old-fashioned and honest greed. The guy worried that the ship, which had come in, might just set sail again, without him on board.

It is also a small testament to the perception of Duran's state of mind and body, by that point. Along with Arcel losing his already tenuous grip on Duran, I'd say it's only a small step to suggest that the team's solidarity and seemingly endless, positive outlooks were nothing like that being portrayed to the sports news media.

 

I'm not saying he was prime or peak but the fact of the matter is that he had just beaten Barkley (who had just ko'd Tommy) to win the middleweight title which was quite a notable thing to do irrespective of age. The man could still fight no if's or but's even if his top form was long gone. He was inspired against Barkley. People try to say it meant absolutely nothing but that is simply untrue. When they came together Duran had just won the middleweight title and Leonard was a super Middleweight champion. Leonard himself had not looked very good against Hearns in a fight he was heavily favored to win.

 

The exact same thing applies in converse.

Duran wasn't green. Every boxer should be able to prepare professionally for each fight.