James Jeffries vs Deontay Wilder

Yeah I agree on that, it was mostly based on the video where didn't actually fought, they didn't crossed their feet really and like I said, Jeffries was really skilled for his time, he was one of the first smart fighters.

 

Thanks I didn't knew that, I thought he looked like Fitz tho

 

FYI Jeffries vs Fitz is an enactment with actors. Were you aware of that?

he others are shot with very old film that runs low, and blurs action. Sugar Ray Robinson would not look good with this film.

 

Yeah, some guys pointed that out, that's the only footage where they actually cross their feet so that was unfair and regarding the footage quality, I agree partially, there was an old video of Vitali under the same effects and he looked like **** but that doesn't change the fact that pro boxing was on early stages at that point, the competition, training methods, experience, trainers, knowledge base, everything was below what it is right now and you can see it on the way they fight, hands down, punching from the waist and lunging here and there. Some of the defensive tactics Ortiz and Fury used against Wilder are way too advanced for Jeffries and they still went down, the straight right Wilder used to knock Ortiz out is too sharp for any guy during that time except Johnson IMO.

 

You watch tapes ... then post a clip of Fitz's exceptional defensive mastery. Post a clip of Fitz's exceptional power. Post a clip of Fitz exceptional boxing dominance over an opponent in an actual fight.

Because the current heavyweight champion, who is 100 pounds heavier, has a two-foot reach advantage, and has an eight-inch height advantage over Fitz looks MILES BETTER from this side of the screen.

Show us Fitz is better. You've been dragging this out for nearly two weeks. Back it up with something tangible. Not just hearsay.

 

I'm going by his opinion in books

When did most of those making lists of heavyweight champions see them fight? Fleischer only saw Jeffries against Johnson could he judge his abilities from that?

I think Fitz was an exceptional fighter,but I don't think this can be proved from the available footage of him. Grainy flickers of Jim Corbett where the ko isn't even clear ,and some footage of him as an old man being man-handled by Lang.Unless you've seen more than the rest of us?

 

I know it is.

Post a clip of Fitz's exceptional defensive mastery. Post a clip of Fitz's exceptional power. Post a clip of Fitz exceptional boxing dominance over an opponent in an actual fight.

Because, if this is your example, you have ZERO argument.

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This isn't a fantasy pound-for-pound discussion. You have two heavyweight champions. Both of them (Jeffries and Wilder) weigh basically the same. Wilder's a little taller. Jeffries was usually heavier.

The best guy Wilder successfully defended against was Fury. The best guy Jeffries successfully defended against was Fitz.

You think 167-pound Fitz is better than 270-pound Fury and a tougher opponent, prove it.

If you want, I'll post a clip and you can post one. Here's Fury demonstrating his defensive moves. Now show a clip of Fitz, because THERE ISN'T ONE SIMILAR in any Fitz-Corbett footage.

The only thing Fitz and Fury have in common is baldness. That's about it. Fury's the better fighter by 100 miles (and 100 pounds).

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And why should any weight be put on any of those opinions?

I don't remember citing Fleischer's opinion of Jeffries to rate him.

 

The people who are most dismissive of the old timers based on footage, invariably suck at analyzing footage.

This is a case in point!

 

I'm not rating anyone I just mentioned Johnson's opinion of Sullivan, take it for what it is or leave it the **** alone .WTF do I care!

 

You defended Wilder's record by saying that he drew against Fury, and I had to point out that this was a very hollow argument.

 

I'm not dismissive of old timers. I think boxing pioneers should be honored. I have said that previously in this thread.

But don't act like Bob Fitzsimmons would be a tougher out for a modern heavyweight champion than Tyson Fury is. Fitzsimmons wouldn't even be heavyweight. And Fury is the biggest and best of them all right now.

Tyson Fury is 100 pounds heavier, has a two-foot reach advantage, has a eight-inch height advantage and is a far better boxer than Bob Fitzsimmons.

This isn't fantasy land. If you disagree, prove it.

Post clips of Fitz and Fury at their best, and you can analyze the clips. I've love to know WHAT THE HELL you're looking at. (LOL)

 

I guess Battling Levinsky has a good case for GOAT then, since he successfully defended against Harry Greb and Miske multiple times, not to mention Tommy Gibbons