Leonard's decision to rematch a less than full strength Duran

Sorry I wasn't so much replying to you as much as the general 'Leonard was green' opinion.
Duran did beat pretty much the best version of Leonard, by which i mean a prime, or near as dammit prime Leonard.
I'm talking about his ability at the time and his conditioning, not his fight strategy, that's a different issue altogether.

 

Spot on, put much better than I tried to put it.

I'd also argue Hearns was less experienced, refined, and much further away from his physical prime v Leonard 1 than Leonard was v Duran in Montreal.

Still a great win for Leonard, which puts in to perspective Duran's win.

 

Oh well I agree that he was in good shape and a prime fighter.

 

I'm admittedly a bit neutral on Leonard, see his assets and his faults - but that was ridiculous. I have no idea what he hoped to accomplish by it ... if anything, he looked foolish waiting for some kind of epiphany from Duran after flying all the way to Panama, who simply shrugged and said the same thing he's said for 30 years. I guess if you've got the time and the money to blow, but still -

 

I know. Leonard failed miserably by doing this "documentary" because quite frankly it made him look like the tool he actually is, superb fighter notwithstanding.

 

Leonard was a superb infighter as well, not just from distance.

 

I know. He had to develop that skill though, he wasn't known for in fighting until he fought Duran and improved during the course of the fight.

 

He actually stood in the pocket for most of the Benitez fight and then stopped him.

 

I have an interview somewhere (i'm almost certain it was a Mike Trainer interview) where Trainer said he had to convince Leonard to get back into the ring so soon against Duran when he was basically licking his wounds. The implication was that he was very much not keen and had to be pushed toward the whole idea.

This would fit into the whole Leonard ego thing which i am sure you would be happy to get onboard with.

Did he come back? Did he come back this time? You are fobbing off importance on any and all pro Leonard quotes and putting your own spin and slant on them while thrusting forth anything pro Duran.

Leonard didn't want the fight so quick either until convinced. 5 months between fights is a decent amount of time. Leonard had a whopping 9 fights in 1979 including bouts against 2 top 10 welters, a top 5 middle and an ATG. Even including the Duran fights he had just 3 in 1980.

Well Eleta, Durans manager certainly thought it less risky than keeping Duran out of the ring for a longer period.

Making weight was nothing due to Duran. Numerous times he had to come down from 165 for title defenses at lightweight. The short time would have been a big speed bump but the other drama was that he did not train with the intensity he had for the first fight. If he dedicated completely in camp he may well have been fine. Unless fighting non stop he was always well above weight, or simply fighting at higher weights and taking it easy.

When the contract was made is irrelevant. I said he did not train as put in as well training for the second fight which is factual. There were more hangers on, less intensity etc. He wasn't enjoying the cold climate either and took more goading to get cracking. It's not Leonard's fault he trained with less vigor when he did go into camp. Actually scratch that - someone will surely try to somehow make that Ray's fault LOL

He'd started jogging in Hawaii yes.

Again you are fobbing off anything pro Leonard with speculation.

What i am saying is that i believe Duran would never have beaten Leonard again no matter what shape he got into or amount of time he had to lose flab.

I'll also be able to address questions I've seen per Leonard not being at his greatest in the first fight in this response.

The simple fact of the matter is that Duran outhustled and out thought Leonard at every step of the way in the first fight. His cold calculated behavior, at first thought to be simple rudeness and madness.

Duran had a spy watching Leonard's wife in her nearby hotel. Each time she'd leave the hotel Duran would get a call and race down to a waiting car, drive alongside Juanita's and yell things like after i beat your husband i **** you and all sorts of other such rot and shenanigans. This was all designed to put Leonard off his game and entice him into a reckless fight. It worked a treat as duran completely and utterly out psyched the golden boy Leonard.

Given the grief piled onto Leonard per the second fight one can only imagine the furore we'd see in here if Leonard had resorted to such acts

So what Leonard learnt in one immense lesson from the master in Montreal was the art of mental warfare. Ray says he learnt as much in one fight from Duran as he learnt in 5 against others. It was a crash course and one he would never be outdone in again as he himself became the master of the pre fight battle. Sure he improved as a fighter but not super dramatically. Leonard was probably at his absolute peak when he first retired.

Because of the above i believe Duran would always beat him in their first fight. In short he had to learn that lesson from Duran before he could beat him. Leonard could only learn that lesson from Duran i would guess. He was one of a kind. A cold, hard calculated Leonard came out the other side and he was undeniably a better fighter because of it.

All the insinuations about Leonard being as good as he would ever be are shyte. Oh but, but, but he beat Benitez! Benitez was still securing his own legacy. It's a great win but there were many more to come. Duran II was a big part of Ray securing his legacy at 147 and then we have Hearns afterward which was of course immense.

If Leonard was so highly thought of 17 out of thirty sports writers would not have picked Duran with a whopping 16 favoring Hands of Stone by stoppage.

It's my opinion that the Montreal Duran would not beat the post Montreal Leonard. Some will disagree some will agree. It's a good debate.

 

Duran was actually ahead on the Judges' cards in the second fight.

 

You're dead right about Ray having to be talked into the re-match so quickly. Angelo Dundee told exactly the same story.

 

No he wasn't. The scorecards were 66/67 and 2 cards of 66/68 close fight but all for Leonard .

 

You might want to check that again.

 

Cheers for a bit of confirmation. My memory is that he was quite down and had to be pushed. Ray takes full credit for it now tho hahaha

 

I have been corrected.