SURVEY CLOSED

I was convinced you'd have Hearns number 1 WW and leave Duran out of the LW rankings lol

 

Why would that be? I was never the type to pick Luis Ortiz over Jersey Joe Walcott was I?

 

Yeah. Happy to explain it.

pound for pound I rate for longevity Through the weight classes which is why multi weight boxers feature a lot on my pound for pound list. Carpenter was a guy who went through all the weight classes. He could have been champion in more weights I think, and He transcended the sport as a personality. An important international icon of the sport. He was genuine class too.

I kept Tunney and Charles out of the light heavy rankings because they became champions at heavyweight.

However, their prowess in that Lower weight class is acknowledged among pound for pound list. Some fighters represent a pound for pound brilliance rather than divisional brilliance that can be represented in Dominance & longevity.

I had to imagine Multi weight fighters concentrating all they achieved in just one weight class. Which is why I struggled for a weight class for Thomas Hearns. He’s a pound for pounder.

. I just felt Tunney beating Greb so many times (who is high pound for pound) had to be acknowledged in that list. He didn’t do enough at HW. Charles is there for his sheer resume against champions across the divisions

 

FLY


1.Jimmy Wilde

2.Miguel Canto

3.Pancho Villa

4.Pascual Perez

5.Benny Lynch

6.Midget Wolgast

7.Frankie Gennaro

8.Masao Ohba

9.Betulio Gonzalez

10.Hiroyuki Ebihara

11.Yuri Arbachakov

12.Fighting Harada

13.Fidel LaBarba

14.Pone Kingpetch

15.Chartchai Chionoi



BANTAM


1.Eder Jofre

2.Carlos Zarate

3.Ruben Olivares

4.Manuel Ortiz

5.Panama Al Brown

6.Fighting Harada

7.Pete Herman

8.Terry McGovern

9.Joe Lynch

10.Lupe Pintor

11.Chucho Castillo

12.Kid Williams

13.Rafael Herrera

14.Lionel Rose

15.Bud Taylor



FEATHER


1. Willie Pep

2. Sandy Saddler

3. Salvador Sanchez

4. Vicente Saldivar

5.Abe Attell

6.Henry Armstrong

7.George Dixon

8.Eusebio Pedroza

9.Johnny Kilbane

10.Alexis Arguello

11.Terry McGovern

12.Tony Canzoneri

13.Azumah Nelson

14.Jimmy Driscoll

15.Freddie Miller



LIGHT


1.Benny Leonard

2.Joe Gans

3.Roberto Duran

4.Ike Williams

5.Pernell Whitaker

6.Henry Armstrong

7.Carlos Ortiz

8.Tony Canzoneri

9.Freddie Welsh

10.Sammy Mandell

11.Julio Cesar Chavez

12.Packey McFarland

13.Beau Jack

14.Joe Brown

15.Sammy Angott



WELTER


1.Ray Robinson

2.Ray Leonard

3.Jose Napoles

4.Henry Armstrong

5.Kid Gavilan

6.Barbados Joe Walcott

7.Jack Britton

8.Emile Griffith

9.Barney Ross

10.Floyd Mayweather

11.Thomas Hearns

12.Jimmy McLarnin

13.Mickey Walker

14.Ted Lewis

15.Charley Burley



MIDDLE


1 Harry Greb

2. Carlos Monzon

3. MarvinHagler

4.Ray Robinson

5.Freddie Steele

6.Charley Burley

7.Bernard Hopkins

8.Jake Lamotta

9.Stanley Ketchel

10.Holman Williams

11.Dick Tiger

12.Mickey Walker

13.Tiger Flowers

14.Bob Fitzsimmons

15.Marcel Cerdan



LIGHT HEAVY


1.Ezzard Charles

2.Archie Moore

3.Sam Langford

4.Tommy Loughran

5.Michael Spinks

6.Bob Foster

7.Bob Fitzsimmons

8.Billy Conn

9.Gene Tunney

10.Harry Greb

11.Jimmy Bivins

12.Maxie Rosenbloom

13.Harold Johnson

14.J.H. Lewis

15.Matthew Saad Muhammad



HEAVY


1.Muhammad Ali

2.Joe Louis

3.Larry Holmes

4.Lennox Lewis

5.Rocky Marciano

6.Jack Johnson

7.Mike Tyson

8.Jack Dempsey

9.George Foreman

10.Joe Frazier

11.Evander Holyfield

12.Harry Wills

13.Ezzard Charles

14.Sonny Liston

15.Wlad Klitschko



ALL TIME BEST

1. Harry Greb
2. Sam Langford
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Ray Robinson
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Willie Pep
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Jimmy Wilde
9. Tony Canzoneri
10. Barney Ross
11. Roberto Duran
12. Muhammad Ali
13. Archie Moore
14. Julio Cesar Chavez
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Ray Leonard
17. Joe Gans
18. Eder Jofre
19. Pernell Whitaker
20. Billy Conn
21. Joe Louis
22. Charley Burley
23. Manny Pacquiao
24. Ruben Olivares
25. Carlos Monzon

 

Anyone else constantly playing around with their list to see what it looks like when it's actually written in front of you?

BTW, Pacquiao, top ten P4P ATG. I keep going through what he achieved and how he achieved it and I just can't think of a good reason to keep him out.

Champion at 3 of the original 8 weights.

Fighter of the decade in the 00s.

Spends a decade as a top 2 WW in the 10s, and restarts lineage.

Legendary stuff.

Not sure I'll keep it like that but just putting it out there for now.

 

you can put me down for a (c). I both enjoyed and hated this. I have been working on and off for about 2 years and still don’t think I have done justice to any of the divisions outside of HW. I still struggle with my knowledge of pre 1930 so...whatever. Certainly not something you can throw together with any credibility in 2 spare hours lol. I have been studying working to long and still feel like I am grasping at straws trying to develop a criteria that is fair and balanced and one that translates across eras and rule sets. Either way interested to see what you have cooking as far as an overview when this is completed. I may make a subtle adjustment but really don’t want “this” list affected by criticisms (which I am sure there are many valid ones), but will consider them for future lists and studies. Thanks for putting this together

 

I am not criticizing any lists including yours, as my own knowledge is woefully inadequate...but seeing Vicente Saldivar excluded from a top 15 does bring tears to my eyes

 

I shall be adding to it.

 

100 percent. It’s so easy to forget how stacked every division is, but it’s not been as bad as I thought so far. Nearly got my Featherweight list sorted. Bantam and Flyweight is we’re I really need to knuckle down and put in the long hours.

 

Wow !!!! Some really unique and interesting names on some of your lists ( to say the least ) starting with Fly : Patterson above Lynch , for me wrong way round, Mckenzie in there at all ? Terry Allen ( a mate of mines uncle ) not a name that readily springs to mind when discussing ATG Flys, but up to you. Bantham : Mccullogh, Austin,!! maybe I am missing something here ? Feather : dont know who No4 is sorry, Harrision really ? Light : Where is GANS, . Welter : ok with most, not convinced with Starling and Curry gaining entry. Middle : fine with most , Pender concerns, somewhat, Valdez might be seen as a equal at least. LH : Conteh above Saad niggles me. All the above apart , good stuff.

 

Lufcrazy is right, I think, about Pacquiao. I tried to give credit in my P4P list to some who should be reflected as greats but who might be "tweeners" when it comes to dominating a weight class. Examples would be Chavez and to a degree Whitaker and Ross. Pacquiao is the poster boy for this issue, the quintessential modern fighter whose road to greatness now follows the road of weight jumping. Hard to place a guy like that as a standout in any one division. Frankly, I just forgot him. I may have to revise.

 

I look at guys like Fitzsimmons and Armstrong who are lauded mainly on the strength of being champions in 3 of the original 8. Pacquiao has done the same.

 

Thank you, but I’m just ready for a big debate right now tbh. My top 10 for bantamweight is out there though.