Would a 60s Ali be able to dance around the ring all night against a prime Foreman?

He would not have to with all the gifts he had back in 1964-1967, Foreman would fall flat on his face from exhaustion, from chasing Ali all over the place, he was not a moron to fight Foreman like he fought George Chuvalo on March 29 1966.

 

Well...Besides the greater experience in wars in later years, Foreman was just not slow & lumbering-in his first career.
Oh he might have lumbered a bit-but Ali himself said he was surprised by how fast George was.
I tend to agree that a fight with Foreman 10 years earlier would look like it did with Liston, with the caveat that Ali would take over after & even absent any injury as Foreman tired.

Now you could argue that Ali at his very best 2-3 years later, AND not blinded by a substance in his eyes would so better, & I would agree.

Except that nobody is discussing how the question turns on the Zaire fight.
Which means a small ring that is soft, affording little bounce: both conditions favoring the slower slugger.
And being at least as important as both other factors.

Also he never held & pulled the head down so much before the 1970's. Another way to put it is he did not *cheat* much, lol!

So without the ability to rope a dope & use those loose ropes, under unfavorable ring conditions...
Don't you think that Ali just taking a decision or knocking out a tiring Foreman in 10 or more rounds would be quite an accopmlishment?

 

I completely agree. I think Ali could just as easily stop Foreman the way you say. But I think pressure fighters were clearly Ali's weakness. A powerful, tough high-stamina fighter who could think and move right along with Ali could wear him down and catch him. I think Ali would have had free reign of the heavyweights for at least 3 more years if he hadn't been sent into exile, but he would have eventually run into someone who tough and smart enough to beat him. If Ali had never lost his license, and he and Frazier fought in '71, I think Frazier still would have beaten him. Because every fighter, no matter how good will run into a smarter guy, at least for the time being, and will lose, or like Monzon and Marciano, will be wise enough to retire before he loses.

 

If Frazier had fought Muhammad Ali in 1967, Ali would have dance circles around him,maybe in 1971 it may have been different like you say, but pressure fighters would not have a chance. People think because Ali was playing around with Henry Cooper in 1963, got knocked down, he had a lot of weaknesses, He completely dominated Cooper on May 21 1966, TKO 6. But I too think that Ali would have been like Rocky Marciano, and Carlos Monzon, and called it a day in 1971 if he had not been stripped of his title in 1967.

 

perhaps.... So you know about boxing matches, etc., but do you know anything about fighting?

 

most of the guys who beat Ali/ gave him toughest fights were pressure fighters, some of the best in the world in fact

 

Street fighting when I was young, like any other man, do you?

 

only head knowledge unfortunately. But pressure fighter usually have the upper hand against boxers most of the time. Historically, that's how it's usually been. Look at who Marciano beat: Walcott. Great boxer. LaStarza. Great boxer. Charles. Great boxer. Moore. Great boxer. I'm not ruling out the possibility of a boxer beating the pressure fighter, I just view as less plausible than visa versa.

 

But he was not in the 1960's anymore, he lost his prime years because of the foolish draft system, that war was none of our business, war mongering was all the politicians knew to do.

 

Sure it has been done, Ali was pressured in his title bouts in the 1960's but they fell prey to his foot work and speed, and stamina. Joe Frazier did not get to fight him back then, you are stuck in the 1970's Muhammad Ali, who lost to pressure fighters.

 

I just don't think Ali had the experience in the 60s to win a fight with the level of action of say Frazier 1 or Norton 2. I mean, look at how he struggled with Doug Jones, and the knockdown from Henry Cooper that nearly had him counted out?

 

Who are the pressure fighters you refer to? Chuvalo is the only one Ali fought as champion i would call a clear-cut pressure fighter. Floyd would qualify as one in some ways. Ali never faced anyone near as dangerous as Frazier in the 60s though. Plus, it could be argued that Frazier had higher stamina than Ali. I think he did.

 

I do not think he did, he tired late in fights, Ali could dance non stop in the 1960's, no Rope A Dope back then

 

Chuvalo i agree did tire at the tail end of a fight, but Frazier did not.

 

Jones I agree, but Cooper he was clowning trying to reach the prophesied rd he picked. Got caught showing out put on his ass for the foolishness. But if he were serious the entirety of the fight, Cooper wouldn't have seen the end of 3rds. Liston, Ali was blinded in the 5th rd purposely or un. Though he was blind Liston STILL couldn't land anything serious on him.