Any reason why Rodriguez is routinely considered a greater WW than Cokes

He's one of those "hipster" picks i think (Rodriguez) though of course really good. I too prefer Cokes. Maybe it's the cleaner-looking style, but I agree Cokes is generally overlooked here while Rodriguez is lauded a bit too much.

 

Over to you George.

 

I think Rodriguez was the better fighter and Ive always been puzzled by Cokes victories over him. Id love to see those fights to figure out how they played out. I think Ive got every available scrap of film on both guys and I just cant figure out how Cokes beat Rodriguez but thats how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

 

Rodriguez clearly had the better Welterweight resume outside of their series together, unless you don't count fights where one fighter may have weighed just over 147 pounds. Even then, he still holds the edge. Hell, he barely weighed above the Welter limit for a lot of his Middleweight fights for that matter.

The one and only thing Cokes has in his favor is the series win.

 

Rodriguez probably ranks higher because he had a lot more good wins than Cokes did (who had quite a few himself), and was also a good middleweight. Rodriguez

Rodriguez:

Luis Federico Thompson
Yama Bahama (2)
Gene Armstrong
Joey Giambra
Emile Griffith II
Denny Moyer
Wilbert McClure (2)
Holly Mims
LC Morgan
Gomeo Brennan
Benny Paret (2)
Charley Scott
Joe Miceli
Cecil Shorts
Virgil Akins (2)
Isaac Logart
Garnet Hart
Chico Vejar
Jose Gonzalez (2/3)
Curtis Cokes II
Rubin Carter (2)
Rip Randall
George Benton
Bennie Briscoe (2)
Ted Wright
Vicente Rondon II
Tom Bethea
Bobby Cassidy
Tony Mundine

That's a lot of good wins, more than most fighters register in their whole careers. That includes wins over 5 world champions.

Cokes:

Stan Harrington
Charley Shipes
Willie Ludick (2)
Manuel Gonzalez (4)
Rip Randall
Joe Miceli
Charley Tombstone Smith
Kenny Lane
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (2/ 3)
Al Andrews (2)
Jean Josselin (2)

A good list of wins, but he only defeated one champion (Rodriguez), and most of his opponents are not the same level of opponents that Rodriguez beat often. Also, Cokes had several more losses to so-so fighters than Rodriguez.

 

No kidding. Ive never been able to wrap my head around it. Not to make out like Cokes was bad, he wasnt at all but LMR took on some beasts multiples times at both WW and MW and Cokes stops him. And it wasnt even a fluke because he clearly beat him in their first fight as well. I dont know that series is a real puzzler to me.

 

A lot of those wins you named for Cokes arent even that impressive. For instance Rip Randall was nothing special. He has a couple of wins over name fighters on his resume but they were totally shot when he beat them. Al Andrews wasnt anything special, when Cokes beat him he had more losses than wins on his ledger. Joe Miceli had been shot for years when Cokes beat him in his last fight. Miceli had won just three of his last 14 fights. Manny Gonzalez was a tricky fighter but he was one of the worst runner/spoilers Ive ever seen. He became a contender with some pretty careful matchmaking and a couple of a lucky decisions. Once he got to the top he clearly wasnt in that class. He and Cokes had been rivals since the amateurs so they werent exactly taking chances by fighting each other. They knew each other well. Cokes didnt beat Lane, he drew with him. When Cokes beat Tombstone Smith Smith was coming off five straight losses and had won just 3 of his last 11 and just 8 of his last 23. So while Cokes has some recognizable names on his record the actual wins when he got them werent that great in a lot of cases.

 

This is technically true but only because Cokes won his title against a lower caliber opponent than Rodriguez did and defended it against lower caliber fighters than Rodriguez was fighting. Theres zero doubt in my mind that Rodriguez would have beaten Pavilla, Josselin, Shipes, Ludick, and La Cruz and Id also make him a favorite over Gypsy Joe who Cokes shamefully ducked by going on a "fishing trip" while Gypsy Joe was literally weighing in for the bout. Put Cokes in Rodriguez' shoes and I dont think he does as well against Rodriguez opposition or more specifically Griffith. This is all why Im so puzzled by his ability to beat Rodriguez clearly.