Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

This is tough. I'm not sure at all Liston could have kept Rocky down. I do think he would have dominated him and knocked him down.

UD for Liston, though I see Marciano as the greater ATG. In three fights I see Rocky winning II by decision and then making Liston quit in the rubber match, landing a lot of bombs in that last fight.

 

Batman and the Joker have nothing and swag and Loudmouth's rivalry. lol

 

For those who cannot make any case for Marciano, here are a number of points to consider before entirely ruling Rocky out:

1. Is it untrue that Rocky beat a #1 contender who was not only one inch taller and exactly the same weight as Sonny Liston but 8-0 in the last 12 months?


2. Is it untrue that Sonny got his jaw broken by a guy lighter than Marciano?


3. Is it untrue Sonny practically quit in half of his title fights against a lighter puncher than Marciano?


4. Did any reigning HW champion ever get stopped on a cut?


5. Is it untrue Rocky beat or knocked out all the men he hit?


6. Is it untrue even Westphal, who was shorter than Rocky, landed some blows on Sonny?


7. Was Sonny Liston ever rated above Rocky Marciano on any published ATG top ten list BEFORE the internet generation?


8. Were the two men who knocked out Liston greater punchers at world level than Marciano?


9. Was Marciano ever knocked out?

 

In an Ali biography I remember reading that at the time of the Ali fights they were taking about Liston as the GOAT. He was destroying everyone in the world with ease at the time.

 

Well man who inuslted me for stealing is moron when he did the same thing but is is right when he do that!
You copy something you are ok and I copy something well I am stealing....only imbecile and moron could say that!

 

1.Untrue Half inch difference in height.Louis was the no1 contender at the end of 1950 he fought Marciano in Oct 51.
2.True and he continued to lose a split dec.
3. Never proven. if Liston lacked heart he would not have continued in the fight referred to above.
4.True and Marciano would have been stopped today in his fight with Charles
5. True ,and half of them were scrubs,and most of the decent ones older past prime men.
6.Landed some blows?WTF does this mean?He was annihilated.
7. Yes he was rated above Marciano by Terry Leigh Lye,Herbert Goldman,Gerald Suster,Peter Wilson among others.
8.If your no 3 question is true this isn't valid.
9.According to you only once legitimately ,when he was far past his prime.

In closing I'd like to point out this is one of them most slanted,most blatantly biased ,agenda driven, and plain deceitful posts I've ever read on this forum, matched only perhaps by some of your earlier posts.
Is it any wonder you ge so much stick for your input?
You deserve every bit of it!

 

number 8,,,,Liston was not knocked out by Ali, anyone with half a brain knows that. Liston was as old as dirt when he ran outta gas and was stopped by Leotis Martin . Marciano was finished before he hit 35 and to his credit he realized it. Rocky got dropped in the first round by Moore and Walcott,,,,,Sonny is a farrrr badder heavyweight , when Liston drops him, he'll finish him.

 

When you look at the fight advantages they're telling,, on many hypothetical matchups of great fighters there's room for arguments. But in my opinion there's none here, I'm quite confident Charles Sonny Liston would destroy Marciano , a shorter ,lighter, smaller man who comes right at him, inside 5 rounds at the latest.

 

1. Is it true that when getting beaten in an amateur contest Marciano resorted to kicking his opponent?
2.Is it true that when defending his title against tubby,over-matched Cokkell,Marciano hit him low several times, butted him several times ,hit him after the bell,and hit him when he was on the floor?
3.Is it true that when challenging Marciano Joe Louis was 37 years old,weighing a career high217lbs and only fighting because he was deep in debt to the tax man?
4.Is it true Louis won some of the early rounds?
5.Is it true that Archie Moore was38 according to himself,and 2 years older according to his Mother when he fought Marciano?
6.Is it true the188lbs Moore dropped Marciano for a count of 3/4 and that , according to his own account, Marciano blacked out momentarily whilst he was down and when he arose went towards the ropes expecting a standing count?
7.Is it true Marciano insisted on a 16foot ring when he fought Cokkell?
8.Is it true Marciano was considered very lucky to receive the decision over journeyman Ted Lowry178lbs in their 1st fight?
9.Is it true the referee,by his own account was on the verge of stopping his fight against trial horse Keene Simmons and awarding Simmons a tko win?

 

I remember Beau Jack being interviewed while he was shining shoes in a hotel where he said he thought Liston could be even better than Joe Louis. ”could be”. Sonny did look a real threat on a high ATG ranking after he demolished Patterson but The Ali fights really blew Sonnys credibility with the experts at that time. It never recovered until after Ali retired and those experts had died off.

 

Whilst I fully understand why people look at Sonnys attributes and feel that Rocky stands absolutely no chance I feel the majority of this school of thought depends entirely on factors that must first be pointed out.

Factor number one. Marciano was not Joe Frazier. Liston was not George Foreman. Not only was Marciano not Joe Frazier, (stylistically completely different, two handed power, less predictable, rhythm breaking awkward) but he certainly was not the depleted version of Joe Frazier that Foreman beat. Had Rocky continued after the Moore fight we would have seen if Rocky had any more elite wins left in him. We saw that Frazier never did after the first Ali fight.

Factor number two. joe Louis, even the version Rocky beat, was not only marginally bigger than Sonny Liston but I believe old Joe Would likely still beat every single (often intimidated) guy Sonny Liston beat as a contender. Sonnys resume is that thin. It adds to his mystique. But it is just that thin. Joe had the jab and size and he was still world class.

Factor number three. Faith in The greatest tools Sonny had, his powerful jab, reach advantage the ability to capitalise on them are based entirely on Sonny beating up on guys well bellow Rockys championship form who never could have beaten even old Joe Louis.

Technically Sonnys jab was the kind of ramrod jab more suited for taller upright men. It was not a defensive, step off jab. Punching down reduces power and stepping in and falling in behind it, he smothers his follow up. Rocky at least matched Sonny for speed, power and work rate. Was harder to hit at distance. and inside Rocky could restrict leverage and the punch ratio of his opponents.

I think Sonny is left with a Punchers chance. A good chance. Even worth being the betting favourite. But I would bet on Rocky. Too much form. Too much consistency. And crucially too much evidence for Rocky to be more of a stylistic problem for Liston than Sonny would be for Rocky. Sonny hit hard. He was strong and a clear threat and possibly tougher than the men Rocky fought.. but Sonny was no quicker, no cleverer, no braver, no more durable than anything Rocky had seen before.

It’s not that Rocky was super human. He was not invincible. Marciano could not do a single thing better than Sonny. Rocky was just too good at being able to do what he was able to do well whilst stopping the other guy being able to do most of what he was able to do.

I don’t think Sonny was good enough to be able to do the best he could do against Rocky. I don’t think he can stop Rocky doing what he was good at doing. There was no decline in Rockys career. There is nothing to point to that shows us that Sonny can do that.

For Sonny to win, he has to be better than he was with lesser men against a better kind of fighter than he ever beat.

 

Marciano never lost, Liston did. I'm not placing a win on a guy who lost more times.

All these Marciano threads makes me wonder if this is an attempt to smear a white champion and fantasize black fighters whipping him, some ppl never got over that a white man is praised so much in boxing.

 

. This is a lie. And a bad one.

The NBA was the only official or legitimate ratings at that time. They listed Joe Louis as a logical contender to the title which is perhaps a higher regard altogether than number one contender.


Announced October 9, 1951:

Heavyweights Light Heavyweights Middleweights
Jersey Joe Walcott, Champion
Logical contenders

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Joe Louis

Outstanding boxers

1. Rocky Marciano
2. Bob Baker
3. Clarence Henry
4. Rex Layne

this all makes for a nice story, but in truth, no heavyweight title fight has ever been stopped because of cuts in favour of the challenger. To this day.

to my knowledge This is incorrect & entirely Bogus.

what baring has this on how badly Marciano might fare against Sonny Liston?

what baring has this on how badly Marciano might fare against Sonny Liston?

no this is a lie. Joe Louis was heavier against Ezzard Charles than he was for Marciano.

Yes when he fought Marciano Moore was a lot younger and more active than Wlad Klitschko was against Anthony Joshua.

indeed this could be true. What relevance there is in Marciano struggling with a similar sized opponent before he reached championship level? It’s not like Lowrey was 23lb smaller or broke his jaw is it?

so they say. Again, The relevance of this has zero baring on how badly Marciano might fare against Sonny Liston.