Duran/Hearns the myth

Sure, it does. Hand speed and foot speed are entirely different than defensive timing and reflexes.

Look at Taylor's hand speed and compare it with his average at best defensive anticipation. Camacho had crazy hand and foot speed, but a pretty stationary head. Whitaker, Jones Jr. and Mayweather Jr. were super quick in all three areas. Hearns was more in the Camacho mold with super quick hands and feet but average head movement.

Duran was quick in all 3 regards, but not on their level of speed outside of head movement. His complex array of skills are what made him so successful overall.

This matchup is a bit simpler for me than all that, though. If Duran were a naturally larger man or if Hearns were a naturally smaller man, I'd take Duran. But, that wasn't the case. Hearns was at least 6 inches taller with a 12 inch reach advantage and a naturally larger frame.

 

Agree 100% John. Duran is my favorite fighter ever but this is an example of Tommy having a massive stylistic advantage over Roberto. A better version of Roberto gives him a tougher fight but I believe Tommy wins 10 of 10.

 

I love how Duran literally has his face bounced off the canvas in this one-sided drubbing and yet HE is the one that is called the "badass."

People do worship at his altar here, there's no getting around that.

 

Dude...that is hilarious! (BTW, I am am high ranking Duranite)

 

Duran was undeniably great, I agree. I just think people need to also understand that he was in fact human and had bad days too, and that there's no crime in admitting one's hero has occasional feet of clay.

 

Yep...and thank you for that reminder. I know I am guilty of this.

However, if you permit me to say, Duran is one of the few fighters that is as good as the hype and myth that surrounds him...

No other fighter could have quit in a title match and be as still be as revered. Duran was that good and we boxing fans are blessed to be able to witness it on film..some of us in person.

 

Lol. Pretty easy to do in this case as my fav gets blasted out in 2 rounds. Looked like Duran was shot in the head as he started to go down.

 

Hearns was faster than Duran in delivery at 147 and would have won in about 4 or 5 in 1980 I think if he fights smart-Duran was quick, but Hearns was Leonard quick. Not in combinations but in single delivery with the jab and dropping in the right hand.. That is my opinion. He was at his best in speed. Hearns is not Leonard. He punches much harder and he has a better jab and Ray had better combination speed and lateral movement. One moment people say Hearns was too tall in an unfair way, but then he would have beaten him at welterweight. This is why I don't know where the arguments go in regards to this.

And I do agree Duran gave Hearns a better fight than Cuevas, since he hit Hearns a if couple of times when Tommy was being offensive which again was the Hearns flaw. It as always there. Everyone he fought had a chance with him when Tommy was delivering. A big flaw which he didn't pay for much to be honest. Duran was a great fighter and if someone was in front of him and in range he could win, but Hearns had the range and leverage and speed and jab. The style is not good for Duran and never would be if Hearns fought a smart fight, which at times he did not. So sure Duran could win, but the only way Hearns loses a Duran fight in my mind is if he fights stupid, which he could at times going for the knockout. But it would not be something Duran would do as much as something Hearns would do dumb. I think Hearns wins almost everytime with jabbing and then dropping in the right hand. Duran would have to take it, and he did not take it well here. Taking Hearns right is different than taking Ray's punches. No matter what.

 

That is one thing I will say about Tommy. He gave guys the opportunity to win by being careless in his offense. I never understood that flaw or lack of thinking. To go all out and want that knockout in such a reckless confident way and then be tired and let the other guy possibly land punches and win to me seems rather reckless to use a nice term. So could Duran win? Well if a guy gives them that opportunity by being reckless I guess it could happen, but that would be Tommy's choice. Many times he could have sat back and done what Roy Jones did and win the rounds, but he would hit guys and want to do damage and he was then in range. He did this a few times and I don't understand the carelessness. With Roldan. Even Kinchen when he looked bad in that fight. And he blew fights going for knockouts. Even the Leonard rematch was Tommy on the scorecards and he almost blew it in the 12th round by being stopped, but I think he blew getting a win. To this day I don't understand that. Why not go out and use the jab and box Ray and then tie him when when he gets close and win that 12th and you have the fight. That would have meant he beat all the greats he fought except Hagler. Tommy blew that fight in my mind. Tommy might have been ahead I think and should have won, but he would have had he fought smarter.

 

No he isn't. He was limited to a degree. He just has a fan friendly style that you have hoardes willing to make excuses for him

 

Leonard was faster than Hearns at welter, Duran could certainly have dealt with Hearns' Speed.
Hearns was several times the fighter at Junior Middle than the quite inexperienced 22 year old spindle legged welter who lost to Leonard.
Welter Duran was much closer to prime as well, obviously.
Not suggesting Duran wins, but the fight would be closer whatever the outcome. To say otherwise is just ignorant.

 

I think Tommy loved a tear-up and probably thought as well that no-one could stand and trade with him and come off better. All his losses except for the last 2 were down to, for whatever reason, Tommy deciding at some point to throw offensive punches without being concerned about what was coming back at him. We'll forgive him the Leonard and Hagler losses as there are good reasons for them both. Plus it's Leonard and Hagler!

Really, there was no excuse for him losing to Barkley in the 1st fight and he nearly blew it against Roldan, both because he threw caution to the wind in going for early KOs. He got through one but of course not the other. Tommy could easily have kept both fighters on the end of his jab, dropped in the right hand and left hooks to the body and still have stopped both men, just a little bit later in the fight. And with Barkley, he would have won the fight as he pretty much was except for the last few punches in the fight. Boxing smartly, it's unlikely he would have caught that right hook cum uppercut.

He got lucky against Kinchen and Andries too but he was obviously past prime by this point. I say Andries because although Tommy battered him from Round 6 onwards, it looked like he was floored by a left hook in the 10th, and then the ref stops the fight not long afterwards.

 

He could have beaten anyone if he sat back and used this jab and concentrated defensively better .Those years after Hagler he got a little reckless and I am not sure why.. Something in the Hagler fight made him get hit a little more-after. He loved to brawl and hit guys naturally, but later he forced it. He always said he wanted to give the fans a great fight, but I think it affected his style and career. He could have gone in there and used his jab and waited for the right to land instead of forcing it at times. But I guess that is what made him great. Going for it.

Tommy when he fought Roberto he had a plan devised by Emanual. Duran was so well known and obviously that motivated Hearns and they knew Duran could punch, so they had the plan to have Duran fight the arms and to be active and back up Duran and then use the size and leverage. With other guys I think Hearns sometimes would not have as great a plan. He thought he could just go in there and win without doing much, and then he would struggled. He knew he had to fight his best. He did best when he had a fight plan like against Duran or Hill or Cuevas. He needed to have respect for guys to really fight better at times and to stick to the plan. The Hagler fight was a plan, but it was not a smart plan if Hagler didn't get knocked out.

 

Leonard was faster in extended combination. Not single shots. Not with the jab. Not with the 1-2. More importantly, you're simplifying the issue. It was a lot more than just Hearns' speed. It was that speed with that power behind it coming from a 6'1 guy with a 78" reach. A guy that has a solid argument for the best jab of all time. A guy that has a solid argument for the best right cross of all time. A guy who had the best 1-2 of all time. A guy that was one of the most impossible fighters of all time in any weight class to outbox, while simultaneously being one of the greatest power punchers of all time. A freak of nature.

Doesn't matter how good you are. If you're the significantly smaller, older man, you're not getting it done against that.

 

Some boxing fans believe Duran walked on water. Its OK, great to have a favorite fighter , but sometimes one has to take the blinders off.
On the ATG list One can reasonably debate Duran being higher on the list than Hearns.
I personally rate Duran as one of the top ten fighters in history pound 4 pound.Hearns isn't in my top ten.
But still as much as I love Duran, I know and will always say Hearns was simply all wrong for him . At Jr. Middleweight or welterweight.
Hearns immense physical advantages would have been a bridge too far at anyweight for Duran. The hypothetical fight at welterweight Montreal Duran may have stayed in the fight a little longer than their fight at Jr.Middle. But the results would've eventually ended up the same with Duran getting stopped.
Hearns height , reach, speed ( and no Duran was never faster than Hearns) power, advantages coupled with his ATG skill set would always be a major advantage against Duran.
All excuse making aside about his weight, ( which is the proviable fall back excuse when he lost) Hearns physical advantages were just to great, even for Duran.
Or any fighter under 5'8" with a
relatively short reach.
That fighter would need to stand almost straight up just too reach Hearns. Meaning every weapon Hearns had including his best jab in welterweight history could be used to maximum effectiveness.
What we should see is no other fighter in history could compare too the total package of Hearns. Even fighters that had the height and reach like Mccory and that recent kid who also was very tall for welterweight, I can't remember his name because he was so insignificant Duran destroys.
Duran matched up well with almost any welter in history, and probably would beat all of them , other than a very select 1 or 2.
Hearns though is number 1 in that select list of 1or 2. And his overwhelming physical advantages with his atg skill set would always be too big of an advantage for Duran.