Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

I don’t recall saying he couldn’t be beaten. I just want to know where the proof is that he gets beaten unmercifully? I’m not even saying he wins this one. They’re both pretty equal in my book. He was never even close to “beaten unmercifully”. I’d also add Liston never beat anyone on Marcianos level. I am a big Proponent of both men. Both great fighters.

 

You implied it. And you did again. Just because something didn't happen (in this case, being beaten unmercifully) doesn't mean it can't.

Neither was Joe Mesi, but he never fought Vitali Klitschko.

 

You’re being absurd. Messi never fought world class opposition. Comparing apples and oranges. I also did no such thing. But to say Marciano gets demolished we would kind of need some proof to answer the “why” and “how” aspect. Marcianos went against just as good competition as Liston (except Ali and that didn’t end well for Liston but it was after he won was champ men change so I give him a pass). I see no reason why he would get demolished. Marciano doesn’t fight like Patterson or Frazier. He doesn’t come in head first. He fights out of a crouch and leans. He was difficult to hit clean. I’m not sure how the slower Liston (one of the few people Rocky was faster then) does against him. Rocky very well could get demolished it’s not beyond Liston but I wouldn’t state so over confidently that it would happen . Marciano could very well destroy Liston. This is a difficult fight to gauge as both were very dominant

 

Actually he did beat a few champions. He just didn't fight anyone good enough to compare to Vitali

 

Fought one or two contenders. But no one on a Klitchko Liston Marciano level

 

Marciano doesn't have the strength to crowd, bully, and make Liston take a step back. He can dip low all he wants, he still has to get past that sledgehammer jab and uppercut when he bobs and weaves.

When asked about facing Liston, Tyson said even if he got past the jab he would then have to deal with the brutish strength of Liston--suggesting that simply getting to close range doesn't mean you'll be in the clear. Foreman sparred with Liston and also pointed out how difficult it was to impose his will on him and even had to back up. But you think a 185 pound fighter is just going to force his way in?

Was Ali stopped by Holmes? Did Dempsey get KO'd in 1 round? Was Tyson destroyed by Danny Williams? Did Marciano struggle with Ted Lowry who had more than 20 losses?

This is the last time I'm going to point out that we are talking about a PRIME Liston. A fight that occured when he was an 8 fight novice and a fight that occured when he was a weed smoking alcoholic shopworn fighter in his last fight is irrelevant. The bogus knock down in the 2nd Ali fight is equally irrelevant as it is the most controversial boxing match in history. I will ignore the next post you make if you bring this up again.

Marciano didn't fight anything like Marshall or Ali anyway.

I never agreed to that claim. I think Patterson could have outpointed Marciano. I wouldn't favor him, but its certainly possible and far from a 1 sided bout.

I also dont agree that Marciano would be an extremely difficult opponent for Liston, I think it's a bad matchup. I favor Liston 7:3.

Sonny was not as shopworn as Louis, Charles, Moore, or Walcott, nor was he in his late 30's or under 200 lbs.

And Wladmir Klitschko looked great in his last outting against Joshua. Larry Holmes looked great against Ray Mercer. Ali pulled off one last hurrah against Spinks. Mayweather looked great outboxing Maidana. What the **** does any of that have to do with the fact Marciano's opponents had all been active boxers for more than 15 years with more than 60 fights to their name, had been in brutal wars, and we can see on film that their sharpness and reflexes had gone down significantly?

Are You an idiot?

Dempsey lost his title to Tunney, then he beat sharkey, then lost to Tunney again. He did not have the title when he beat the mediocre Sharkey. When I asked if you thought it was a strong era I was referring to when Dempsey sat on his ass for 3 years partying with high society before Tunney took the belt.

 

No. That doesn't work. There is no proof of anything happening in this fantasy match-up, because it's a fantasy match-up.

First of all, Marciano wasn't hard to hit. It's literally there on film, he took massive punches for fun vs the best opponents he fought.

Second, Patterson was hard to hit, and Liston had very little issues finding him. Just because Marciano crouches rather than use a peek-a-boo doesn't mean that he's harder to hit. Patterson was light-years ahead of Marci in speed too.

You don't see a reason why he'd get demolished? How about him walking onto punches from one of the biggest punchers in heavyweight history, who already destroyed a top 15 HW TWICE. And this is a guy who has 25lbs on Marciano and still quicker plus over a foot in reach advantage... thinking he can overcome that and an awful style match-up is near hero worship.

So you need proof that Liston would destroy Marciano, but not the other way round? Hmm, how does that work? Marciano never destroyed anyone elite. Liston did.

 

Liston wasn't slower than Marciano.
When I match fighters I look at the advantages they possess over their opponent.What advantages does Rocky have over Sonny?

 

Actually there is plenty of PROOF that he was extremely difficult to hit. Not just a little hard to hit he was one of the best ever at NOT getting hit. He was much harder to hit cleanly then Patterson. Also Marciano was faster then Liston in his prime. Marciano wasn’t fast but Liston was probably the slowest Hw champ ever (one of the hardest hitting but def slowest). Talk about fantasies. Try using facts instead of biased opinion

 

Defense, stamina, speed (yes he was faster). They are pretty equal in strength but I’d give Liston the edge there. I’d also favor Marciano for style points. That being said Liston had an amazing jab, power, balance. Pretty equal in chin I’d imagine as well. There isn’t much difference as far quality of fighterZ. They were both great at what they did.

 

I'm sure you're opinion of Marciano is more subjective than mine of Liston.

 

Old Louis had no trouble landing his jab on Marciano.
Liston was far from the slowest champion. I have to wonder what
you 've seen of him?

 

I love Liston I actually have him in my top 5 ever.

 

I’ve seen every Liston fight in film. Who’s slower? Don’t say Marciano because that’s not even close to accurate. Old Louis jab was much faster then Prime Listons jab. Wasn’t as strong obviously. That and that wasn’t even a prime Marciano.

 

In what other circumstance can an undefeated great champion be written off like this?

This really is my only quibble here.

if Liston were to beat Marciano, it would not be easy. Marciano was much better than anyone Sonny was able to beat in real life.

comeback Joe Louis probably beats all the men Sonny fought. Roy Harris. Zora Foley. Eddie Machen. Where they really so far ahead or much different to Lee Savold, Jimmy Bivins, Cesar Brion?