Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

What a weird comparison. Johnny Summerlin had a solid 18-1-2 record when he was clearly beaten by Liston, who was a 5-bout novice at the time. The following year Summerlin entered the heavyweight top 10, beating the then-undefeated Zora Folley. This doesn't resemble the Marciano-Lowry situation in any way.

 

Summerlin gave Liston a close fight because he was a good fighter, perhaps you could switch that comparison for Roland Lastarza then? Roland was a good fighter. The point I make is that both men have these kinds of fights on their records. It’s the same era. Lots of live opponents turning up.

 

Only in the bizarre world of Choklab can a fighter getting hit by a mere 4 punches (taking no damage whatsoever) and brutally KOing their opponent in the 1st round while also being in complete control from start to finish is somehow evidence that he'd be "vulnerable" to a completely different boxer (mind you Westphal didn't remotely resemble rocky in style or physical attributes).

It is honestly really strange and I'm genuinely confused why you would bring this fight up as a mark against Liston. You are making a light year out of a centimeter. This would be like using Tyson vs Spinks and pointing out how Spinks managed to get up from the 1st knockdown as proof that Tyson lacked power despite the fact it was a brutally 1 sided KO in the 1st.

You've done similar things bringing up Foreman vs Gullick (another 1 sided bout) and the Qawi fight where Foreman was in complete control from start to finish.

But when people point out actual moments in Rocky's career where he was badly hurt, struggled, got outboxed, cut, or knocked down there are all sorts of excuses. You will write editorials longer than an internet terms of service document explaining why WE'RE biased and gloss over evert single example of Rocky looking bad but you will go on for several pages about a guy Liston brutally KO'd in less than a round with minimal effort.

Stevie Wonder can see the bias here, so why do you keep pretending like you don't have an agenda? You constantly take L after L in threads like these and get exposed and you don't convince anyone unless they're a die hard fan of the boxer you're rooting for so what's the point?

 

No but The guy went 20 rounds with Liston and was knocked out by Archie Moore.

 

I am glad you can at least distinguish that. Marciano was world class for one thing.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. In answer to people who think Rocky has no chance against Liston, because he’s short, or inferior, or for whatever reason why isn’t it legitimate to present an inferior and shorter man to Marciano demonstrating that “even he” could land blows before being demolished? To make a case for a fighter you first need to show he can land punches. And that is not a knock on Liston. I am not saying he can’t hit Rocky. Everyone has already decided that he can.

no. Spinks vs Tyson was an important fight. Two undefeated champions. Albert Westphal was an appalling mismatch.

you are free to produce examples where I excuse moments where Rocky was badly hurt or struggled but you won’t find them. It’s boxing. Fighters are supposed to have moments like these. I never make those kinds of excuses.. I am allowed to use an example of where a short guy manages to land on a bigger one to prove that Marciano can also find these openings against them. Why shouldn’t I be allowed to do that? Can it be that you don’t want to acknowledge Marciano might hit Sonny on the chin?

 

No one said you can't bring up Liston vs Westphal. You have freedom of speech. It's still a very dumb example since he accomplished nothing and got brutally KO'd in 1 round.

NOBODY is saying "Marciano wouldn't be able to land a single glove on Liston", and if they are that is an absurd statement. You are arguing against a point nobody made!

A fighter can land 4, 14, or even 40 punches and still lose in a one sided fashion. When people say its a bad match up or that Liston would win "relatively" easily it doesn't mean they think he would yawn and stop him with 1 or 2 hits without getting tagged. Even Patterson managed to land some blows on Liston, but it was still a completely 1 sided domination.

As for Marciano finding "openings", you can use your same bizarre logic to conclude that since Ali was vulnerable to hooks all throughout his career and was dropped by a fairly mediocre Sonny Banks, that Bert Cooper could find an "opening" and stop Ali. Actually, that's an even stronger case than Liston vs Westphall since Liston didn't go down.

 

Louis did seem to really bother Rocky with the jab. And that was a, what, 37 year old Joe?

Imagine prime Liston's jab, then.

But I still don't see either fighter getting stopped (except perhaps Liston in a rubber match). I think it would be a really good fight, Liston takes it in a close one because of the jab.

 

I am arguing against the insinuation. Liston easily blowing out Marciano, or demolishing Marciano, implies Rocky can’t do anything to stop it happening. He’s not Floyd Patterson.

really depends on who is doing the hitting. 40 unanswered punches from George Foreman isn’t going to anyone much good. Tyson. Louis. Liston and Marciano. You can’t really give those guys that many free shots can you?

Patterson never really got himself together though. Both times he presented Sonny with his easiest fight. Floyd didn’t do as well as fighters he was much better than like Whitehurst, Besmanoff, Clark and Wepner. The Liston fights remain the worst two efforts of Pattersons career. As much as Sonny took care of business like an absolute pro, they were Terrible nights for Floyd weren’t they? Floyd turned up but he left all the fight in the dressing room both times.

Ali being vulnerable to left hooks because he was usually decked by left hands has become something of a cliche. Liston was decked by right hands. That never became a cliche. Holmes got decked by right hands and Foreman too. seeing as it happened, Would you say men with a good right hand can deck Larry, Foreman and Sonny?

Would you say Rocky had a lethal right hand?

 

Marciano wouldn't land a single glove on Liston!!

 

The Rock's power is arguably better, plus he was throwing KO shots with both hands. Chin? Liston was koed by Ali twice.

 

1970 Liston was prime time Liston. He beat Chuck Wepner.

 

Voting stands at 51 for a Liston Win versus 22 for Marciano. You wanted expert opinions from people on this forum you’ve got them.

As for my thoughts, Liston by late Stoppage.

George Foreman described an older Liston of the late 1960’s as having a telephone pole jab that once he got started couldn’t be stopped. Big George said Liston was the only fighter to ever back him up consistently. Marciano had issues with a thirty seven year old Joe Louis jab.

 

Really messed him up. I mean, I realize Sonny lost at least one fight badly after the 2nd Ali fight, but it still kind of astounds me he didn't get another title shot. I don't think post-Ali Liston would have made it past Frazier but, say, Ellis?