I wouldn't say that Foreman was stronger than that version of Holyfield. Yes Foreman may have been "naturally stronger" than Holyfield, but Holyfield's top tier weight training regimen and chemical assistance evened things up.
Yes that version of Holyfield was very strong, but peds and weights can only take you so far, he was naturally a skinny light heavyweight and cruiserweight while foreman was naturally a big muscular heavyweight, so I think prime foreman was stronger than any version of Holyfield
I was going to join back into the conversation then I read this and decided you had a tenuous grip on reality
You don't have to believe it if you don't want but posters around here tend to put too much emphasis in "natural strength" and "natural size". A 218 pound Holyfield was just as strong as any version of young Foreman and Foreman pushing Frazier around doesn't mean that he is Holyfield's superior in strength.
Foreman may have been stronger than a smaller Holyfield but as Holyfield increased in size, so did his strength. Why is it far fetched to assume that a genetically gifted athlete like Holyfield who is put on a strength and conditioning regimen by people with college degrees in the field, whose full time job is to make Holyfield bigger and stronger, why is it so difficult to believe that a 218 pound Holyfield could be as strong or stronger than a 220 pound Foreman? Sure, if Holyfield was untrained you would have a point but he got a hell of a lot bigger and stronger from his CW days.
Two of my favorite HWs. Tyson by KO. I think his speed would be the key difference. Unlike Fraizer, his head movement was reactive. Frazier had erratic head movement. Tyson had more power with either hand too and probably a better chin than Frazier. I think Foreman's size was a bit overrated. He's taller than Tyson, that's about it. He's also basically the same size as Ali. That said, if Foreman won, I wouldn't be surprised.
Well who did Frazier beat who you would beyond all reasonable doubt pick to beat the guys that Tyson beat? Could Chuvalo or Quarry or Ron Stander go through Tyson's opponents undefeated? If you put everyone Tyson defended the title against vs everyone Frazier defended the title against (just counting the guys they beat and not Ali), can you say that the guys Frazier beat would wipe the floor with the guys that Tyson beat?
These are ifs and could haves. I just think Frazier beat better contenders. That's my opinion on what transpired in the real world. Yes I do believe quarry and chuvalo are ; as good or better than rudduck and berbick. Frazier also beat Ali while Tyson lost to Douglass. What exactly am I missing?
1. Tyson doesn't intimidate Foreman, if anything he's the one scared 2. George arguably has the most powerful jab in heavyweight history, maybe second only to Liston 3. George has the height ,reach and strength advantage 4. Tyson has to come forward to be effective , he couldn't move Holyfield 5. he won't back up Foreman either 6. Foreman has gotten off the canvas to win 7. If Tyson senses he's in trouble , he'll fold. see Holyfield II 8. Styles make fights, a short man with a shorter reach who comes straight at Foreman is... 9 Tailor made for Big George 10. After jabbing and mauling and shoving Tyson back in round 1 Foreman stuns Tyson and causes him to hold. In the second Tyson nails George with a hook which George handles fairly well and keeps jabbing and causes Tyson to straighten up and stop coming forward . Foreman blasts Tyson again with a clubbing shot that wobbles Tyson and he 's dropped late in the round. Round 3 see's a lull in the action as George jabs and grabs Tyson. It's over in round 4 as Tyson goes down from a series of crushing hooks and the ref waves it off after Tyson rises: 2:24 of round 4.
