Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

I can articulate my points well enough to ace papers, write short stories, get an A in a College level speech class, and receive an English degree. I really don't think that's the issue here lol.

When a chick rants about how "all" the men she's dated were trash, guess whose the common denominator? What does that say about her when "all" her ex boyfriends and husbands (who don't know each other) were no good losers? When multiple people on this forum say the exact same things about Choklab (and some of us don't even always agree with or like each other), what does that say about him...?

We've been "on topic" for 29 pages. We've been patiently humoring him and every illogical argument he makes in this thread and several other topics. The problem is this topic is stupid.

He expects us to take him seriously when he uses the Leotis Martin fight as evidence of Liston's lack of durability, a fight that happened when Liston was old, lacked motivation, drank heavily and smoked weed. Instead of dropping this point he will dig his heels in despite the fact the thread is clearly about a PRIME Liston. He ALWAYS debates like this and it's not due to lack of knowledge.

 

When did I recently mention Leotis Martin?

 

Yup, when they can’t disagree the guns come out.

 

Westphal Vs Liston... Jesus that KO was a hate crime. Sonny stood center ring and ate his soul.

 

your posts are well written and thought out from what I can see. I might not always agree. But my point being is why not address the point as opposed to attacking minute details in regards to the post? (Wasn’t singling u or anyone out really)His point may be that little guys can hit Liston not that westphal put up a good fight. Now I understood the point right off but everyone jumps on the guy. But they do it all the time.

 

I did address his points. They're extremely invalid in the grand scheme of things. Boxers get hit, it's boxing. Liston was hit 4 times and they were glancing blows. Westphal did not in any way, shape, or form trouble, frustrate, or even remotely hurt Liston whatsoever. It was a freaking 1st round KO and Liston was in control without a mark on him. What more could he do to improve on that performance, uppercut Westphal into the ceiling like a mortal kombat fatality? Its extremely silly to nitpick this fight and attempt to milk it out as evidence that Rocky could beat Liston.

How about using bouts from Liston and Marciano's performances from their peak years instead of spending 30 pages talking about Marty Marshall, Leotis Martin, and Albert freaking Westphal?

How about for Liston we use

-Harris
-Williams
-Folley
-Patterson
-Machen

And for Marciano we'll use

-Louis
-Walcott
-Charles
-Lastarza
-Moore

 

Art Henri is just one of those guys. Everyone has a Art Henri. That’s all I was saying. At least Art beat Yvon Durelle before Durelle nearly beat Archie Moore and he decked Ted Lowrey.

I never said Williams was the worst guy to lace em up. I actually think he was a very exciting fighter. I, and many others, just don’t hold him in as high esteem as you do.

 

Exactly. I never said he put up a good fight. Only presented the fact that even he could land punches. Seems that’s not allowed...

 

Woeful even for you Chok.

 

Little guys can hit Liston is a valid point?
Which post on this thread states the opposite?

 

There is also the factor that ,knowing Westphal posed no threat power wise.Liston was not concerned about taking those ineffectual punches in able to get his shots home.
eg We see Langford walking in wide open against Jim Flynn,unconcerned about the incoming ,confident his superior power would win the day.
Had he been Wills or McVey ,I think he would have been more cautious ,its levels.

Liston stated that it was in the Williams fights he"found out about himself",that he could absorb big punches,.He probably didn't worry about what the German could offer.

 

"Marciano closed out the year by destroying a ham and egger named BillWilson",actually a cut eye stoppage.Then in a quartet of fights in early 1951,the Rock hit rock bottom.
Against Keene Simmons in late January,Marciano was in trouble early before winning,and not before drawing some boos from the Providence crowd for hurling a few low blows.
In his next fight Marciano cruised to a second round tko over Harold Mitchell.It was hardly a resounding victory,though given that Mitchell had never won a professional fight in twelve outings.
Back in Providence someone named Art Henri managed to last 9 rds before succumbing via a tko.
Marciano's next opponent the equally unheralded Red Applegate
did even better lasting the whole ten rounds.

What was wrong with Marciano? You'd think the guy was a fragile egg to be kept under glass the way his opponents [Lastarza excepted]
have been hand picked.
Whether this has been for Marciano's good can be doubted.
His improvement over the past year has been slight.
But then he has not been fighting anybody from whom he can learn anything.Providence Journal March 29.

 

That’s the point lol. Others made it about westphal as opposed to the fact that he laid gloves on him (idk why people doubt Marciano could lay gloves on Liston kind of odd co soldering he beat several defensive greats).
On a side note you should get involved in the top five best opponents thread. Would like to see your opinion there.