Vitali Klitschko vs Evander Holyfield

A torn rotor cuff is one of the most debilitating injures. Your entire argument is based on the injury. Vitali lost a fight he was well in the lead on. Maybe if it was the end of his career or for higher stakes, he would have risked permeant injury. Who knows. Later in his career and at age Holyfield fans are littered with excuses Vitali beat Chisora with the same injury.

In the meantime, your FULL of excuses for Holyfield.

You have way more excuses than I do in this thread and you know it. Mine is an injury that required surgery, and I'm not even making that excuse, rather I point out how well he was doing with it. Holyfield quit in a fight with no injures in by the way if you want to go there.

Your continuation of ducking of my questions prove you can't admit I am correct. All that we discovered is you think Holyfield beat Lewis in the 2nd fight, but won't show your scorecard and that Moorer, would beat Vitali, both of which way out there.

Last question which I predict you will duck or answer very badly. Who wins the re-match Vitali or Byrd?

 

Haha, okay a USA based Magazine full of a panel not exactly friendly to Vitali ( Like Teddy Atlas thinks Holyfield is 11th greatest ) How he's tied with Lewis is beyond me. Utter BS but look who's voting. Vitali is 17th. 6 spots between them.

Greatest means what? I think Vitali is a better heavyweight and would beat Holyfield, pumped up on PED's if they fought. If Holyfield was a foreign born Russian with the same ability, I do not think he would have done so well in this poll.

If you want to ask who is better in a pound for pound sense, I'd say Holyfield, who's 40 pounds lighter and 5" smaller. Things like that and power mean a lot at heavyweight ya know.

The article makes a clear point that Holyfield best wins were past their prime opponents. OUCH. " Holyfield was bigger than Dempsey and Marciano, but he couldn’t punch like them. And when you’re fighting, punching means a whole lot. " The panels way of justifying that Marciano and Dempsey were greater " than Holyfield. You don't agree with that, not do you?

 

I think you're having a mental breakdown. Vitali never made a P4P list , ever. Top 100 annual rankings is a completely different list.. And he only got high as #12 at the very end of his career , due to longevity. Where was he the year before? Your link shows exactly where he was. So i was right.. Wins against his best opponents were not enough to get him a top 20 ranking on an annual top 100 list. Holfield was a top 3 P4P level fighter in his PRIME. . . Spam that post all you want.. Your own link shot you in the foot.

Last Year’s Ranking: 22[/QUOTE]

Dino, you got it handed to you. This is their pound for pound list, expanded to 100. The rankings of from the same magazine in the top ten are same on both lists! Busted.

Then you say oh but the year before he was #22, which make you really look stupid by saying, Vitali never came close to a top 20 P4P list. DUH. I ponder where he was the year after, maybe even higher than 12 as he did not lose.

Not only are you wrong as often I I check, but you can't admit it like man. Are you going 0-3 by not showing me the re-match clause I asked for twice?

You are the Dunning–Kruger of this board, with perhaps some attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. If this is the case, I will withdraw from making you look really bad, and offer an apology.

Like I said before GET HELP.

 

Well, it is not pound for pound rankings.It is ATG heavyweight rankings but I think you already know.You are just desperate at this point.

You have been arguing all along that Vitali has a better record, implying that he is the greater heavyweight.Now the RING educated on this.Your personal opinion has very little relevance compared to the RING.I am sorry but you lost that one.Helpless as you are, you are trying to play the Race card on this one.

I told you all along that you would be better advised to argue head to head than record.Maybe there would have been some reasonable points to be made.But stubborn as you are you would not listen.Now it is too late and you got schooled.To me at least, you you lost all credibility.Only thing I am interested is would be if you could come up with a similar credible public source which has Vitali ahead of Holyfield the ATG ratings.I am waiting.good luck

 

You have to be more specific... I'll entertain this if you want , i ask you to not back out and be honest. So tell me , who drew up the contract and rematch clause? You answer this question and ill answer whatever you ask next. . Waiting on an answer??

 

RIng Magazine loves Holyfield. Point and case in their top 50 heavyweights of all time, Holyfield rated 3rd with soiled an otherwise excellent piece. I already showed you lots of reasons why Vitali's better. Put him in vs Moorer or Ruiz, he's not going 2-2-1 heck Holyfield lost the first Ruiz fight and you know it. Holyfield should be 1-3-1 vs Moorer and Ruiz. He was RODIED up, inconstant, and got soooo many chances, sure he won a few.

He's 1-4 vs Lewis and Bowe, and you know it. If Vitali had the same amount of opportunities, he'd do better. He did better vs Common opponents, would struggle vs Cooper, and would probably finish an aging Holmes and would beat Foreman by a bigger margin.

You a fan boy plain and simple who continues to run from my questions. Keep running.

1-3-1 vs Moorer and Ruiz? On fair score cards, absolutely. Ruiz won the first fight, plane and simple. Watch is and show us a card like yours which has Holyfield beating Lewis. I'm gone if you want to score it . In fact I think a Holyfield vs Ruiz flashback would make for an interesting thread.

 

You have been corrected twice, and have not admitted your mistakes. You were not only schooled, you made false statements and were caught doing it.

I asked you first for the contract clause. You had nothing, so why make u stuff...again? Show me the Vitali vs Byrd re-match clause you spoke of? If you wish I can show you who ordered the re-match between Vitali and Lewis.

You shoot first and aim later. This is your modus operandi, and even in hindsight your aim is not very good.

GET HELP.

 

Where is the reliable public source which has Vitali ahead of Holyfield in the ATG heavyweight rankings? Now you better come up with something boy. In case I have not made myself clear, I am not interested anymore in discussing your biased BS arguments.


Here is for example a list which has a non US fighter at 4: Look where Holyfield is. where is Vitali???
[url]https://thegruelingtruth.com/boxing/top10heavyweights-time/[/url]

 

Where is the list I asked for Mendoza?

 

While not exactly fan friendly the series officially came out 1-1-1

Ruiz, was best known at that point in time for a KO1 blow out loss at the hards of David Tua.

Holyfield entered the trilogy coming off a loss to Lennox Lewis, at age 37.

Boxing fans probably felt Holyfled would beat Ruiz, but what happened was a mix of boredom and poor judging. The scoring in the first fight was a robbery, worse I think than Holyfield drawing with Lewis in their first fight. Ruiz should have won the 1st fight.

In the re-match Ruiz won it fairly. The third match was a draw. None of the matches was exciting.

Who got the better of who?

 

Watch Mendoza as he lies , squirms and weasels his way out of this debate.

He's asking me to produce an actual copy of a rematch clause from 20 years ago. He is trying to pretend Chris Byrd was the one that didn't trigger the rematch clause.

Why are you lying Doza?? Why have you constantly lied for years that Don King prevented the rematch? Why do you always run away when its proved that Byrd signed with King in 2002 , 2 years after Vitali dodged the rematch.

See if you can be honest about it this time- why did Vitali's let Wlad rematch Byrd rather than rematch Byrd himself? Don't ask me to produce Byrds rematch clause because he didn't have one. He signd a conteract on a weeks notice with Universum. He was controlled by Universum and i can prove that to be fact.

 

Vitali would go 0-5 with the versions of Bowe and Lewis Holyfield fought.

 

Somehow Mendoza’s latest hate on Holyfield thread about the trilogy with Ruiz was moved here. We all get it dude...

Ruiz was 28 and in his prime. Holyfield was an old 37/38 years old, shot to ****, 15 years on from his first world title, an entire decade on from beating Douglas and with too many miles on the clock from wars with much bigger men....

Yet the likes of prime Lewis and Ruiz were still struggling with him.

 

What do you mean, Lewis clearly beat Holyfield 8-4 in the 2nd fight, this is hardly struggling.

Ruiz was in his prime sure, but he was hardly a force. He had enough to beat Holyfield, past his best but farm from finished.

The first fight was a robbery, don't you agree. Ruiz won it.