Jack Sharkey vs Johnny_B

Johnny B, your opinion is shared by many/most young fighters who have watched the old timers on video. I have never talked to a modern fighter who was impressed by video of a fighter from the 30s. Just a few days ago I was talking to one of our boxers and he was laughing about seeing some video of Marciano. He even did an impression of Marciano fighting, hands at chest level, throwing telegraphed punches, etc. He said that if he had been boxing in the 50s and before he'd be a legend today. I think that a lot of the people who post here would be surprised if they knew what modern boxers/trainers really thought of the old time video. Most are smart enough not to give their true opinion in public after finding out what happened to Larry Holmes when he told the truth.

Bert Sugar, Tracy Callis, and other "historians" are not boxers, their idea of a "good" fighter and a boxer/trainer's idea are probably not even close to the same. Sharkey isn't the worst of the 30s boxers I've seen, he's better than most of them, but as he was at his best, he wouldn't be a contender today or even in the top 100.

 

I have sparred with many top amateurs, but it was just sparring.
Also, Sharkey was a top boxer over 100 years ago, his skillset is poor by modern standards.
To put things into perspective, take the best car from 100 years ago. Now compare it with your average car nowadays, say a Toyota Corrolla. The Toyota would **** all over the old car, although by modern standards, the Toyota ain't ****.
Same applies to boxing.

 

The fact that I'm skilled enough to use my considerable size advantage to win.

I've sparred with many top amateurs, some dominated me and some were dominated by me. But those were mostly my size.
I've taken their punches, granted most of the time with headgear, but since I could take theirs, how could a small guy ever hurt me ?!

Yes, Mayweather will outpoint me, but he'd never hurt me. He just doesn't have the power. About 7 or 8 years ago, me and a friend sparred with Leonard Doroftei, a former lightweight world champion. Doroftei was around 43 at the time. My friend is around 5.10, so he's not much bigger than Doroftei. Doroftei took it easier on him, but he still outpointed him with ease.
Then it was my turn. He didn't take it easy on me, cause he saw me as being bigger and he joked that I can take it. He ducked under my shots and landed many body shots, but I took them. I blocked some with my arms, and it might sound that I'm bragging, but those didn't hurt at all. He couldn't land any on my face, at least not clean, just a few glancing blows that did no damage whatsoever. That gave me courage so the next time he came in, I sorta abandoned my defense and cautious approach and manhandled him. I grabbed him and pushed him back with ease, then unleaded punches which made him retreat, and even though he blocked almost all of them, I could see him being hurt a bit, in the sense that I damaged his arms. I completely dominated him after that. By that I mean that he rarely managed to land on me, while I kept on pounding on his guard and head and I even floored him once. He congratulated me after that, but he also said he'd beat the crap out of me if he was my size. I enjoyed that, I think it was his way of praising me without losing face.
I am aware that the man was retired and he's nowhere near Mayweather's level, but I'm very confident Mayweather won't be able to hurt me either.

 

That was my point all along, that the sport has evolved bigtime.

My thoughts exactly.

 

No offense but you’re kind of making me think you never did any of that. I’ve sparred with pros weighing 220. Amateurs at 180 and just very large men at 270. All of them hit differently but the hardest I’ve been hit is from a guy who was barely an amateur at 205. Hit like a damn mule. Even the coaches said so. Wilders “skills” are laughable even by 30s standards. If you’ve spent time in a real gym you’d probably know size isn’t everything. But much like many of the phonies in here who’ve said they used to spar you say things that just don’t add up. I get thinking 30s guys fight slightly different then today but make no mistake that guys ran through countless real fighters...something you’ve never done. He’s probably way more dangerous then he gets credit for. If anything the fighters today have size but it’s skill they lack. Wilder can’t fight going backwards. Ruiz can’t cut off a ring. Nobody properly uses feints (except Mayweather and Wlad and theyre gone). You see “skill” I see roided up premadonnas who fight once a year. Last I checked in the US there are barely any boxing gyms open. Boxing is a dying sport and with it goes the knowledge.

 

Lol this is the exact analogy I was thinking.

 

I never claimed Wilder is very skilled, so I don't know what you are talking about.
For me, the best era of HW's was the 90's. And it's only logical that if there aren't as many people taking up boxing and the HW division in particular, the sport is gonna decline.

 

Sorry should have more referenced Pat who likes to say “modern” fighters laugh at past fighters. Meanwhile they could all learn from the likes of Marciano, Moore, Louis, and so on. You’re favorite era is the 90s huh? Fun era for sure. But remember old guys like Foreman and Holmes who should have been long put to bed were able to compete. Don’t knock the guys from the past but learn from them.

 

Pat was talking about boxing in general, not one specific division.
And just like me, when he talks about modern boxers, he probably means from the 70's and 80's onwards, not just about the 2010's.
The thing is Wilder is kinda similar to Foreman, neither was very skilled, but they both pack great punching power.
Sometimes physical attributes can overcame lack of skill. Just look at how Ali dominated the 60's despite not having proper fundamentals.

 

Foreman was no unskilled oaf like Wilder. Far from it. Had some of the best trainers imaginable in Moore (who’s more skilled then any fighter today) and Saddler. If you watch the Frazier fight it was a thing of beauty. Wonderful game plan executed excellently. I do share your opinion with fighters pre 30s was almost a different sport then.

 

Yeah, that was my point all along, that guys pre 30's wouldn't stand much chance against guys like Liston, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, etc