Why did Louis go down against Galento, Baer, Braddock, and Walcott?

The Uzduzun film used to be hard to get . I'm was told the KO angle is not a good one. Now I see that one has made it way to you tube. It's the only known Joe Louis film I have not seen and that will change by tomorrow. I'm a fair film collector, and have a good idea of what's out there.

The following fights are on film, either complete or partially complete. Off the top of my head I count 32. Not sure if which Simon film is filmed, could be both or just one. Same thing for Pastor. I'm probably missing some, some of the more obscure fights are probably out there. Would have to check on fights #61-68 and #45-41, though I think a few more can be added. See the next post as the character limitation limit demands I break this up.

 

@ Long Count part 2

filmed = its can be seen today in full or partially. I count 32 filmed fights for Louis. 35 is probably closer to the truth.



69 Loss 66–3 Rocky Marciano TKO 8 filmed
68 Win 66–2 Jimmy Bivins ( I think this one is out there )
67 Win 65–2 Cesar Brion UD 10 filmed
66 Win 64–2 Lee Savold KO 6 .
65 Win 63–2 Omelio Agramonte .
64 Win 62–2 Andy Walker TKO 10 (10), 1
63 Win 61–2 Omelio Agramonte UD
62 Win 60–2 Freddie Beshore TKO 4
61 Win 59–2 Cesar Brion UD 10 Nov 29, ( I think it's out there ).
60 Loss 58–2 Ezzard Charles UD 15 filmed
59 Win 58–1 Jersey Joe Walcott KO 11 (15) filmed
58 Win 57–1 Jersey Joe Walcott SD 1 filmed
57 Win 56–1 Tami Mauriello KO 1 filmed
56 Win 55–1 Billy Conn KO 8 (15), filmed
55 Win 54–1 Johnny Davis TKO 1
54 Win 53–1 Abe Simon TKO 6 (15) filmed?
53 Win 52–1 Buddy Baer KO 1 filmed
52 Win 51–1 Lou Nova TKO 6 filmed
51 Win 50–1 Billy Conn KO 13 filmed
50 Win 49–1 Buddy Baer DQ 7 filmed

49 Win 48–1 Tony Musto TKO 9 (15) filmed
48 Win 47–1 Abe Simon TKO 13 filmed
47 Win 46–1 Gus Dorazio KO 2 (15), filmed
46 Win 45–1 Red Burman KO 5 (15),
45 Win 44–1 Al McCoy RTD 5 (15),
44 Win 43–1 Arturo Godoy TKO 8 filmed
43 Win 42–1 Johnny Paychek TKO 2 filmed ( Brutal KO )
42 Win 41–1 Arturo Godoy SD 1 filmed
41 Win 40–1 Bob Pastor KO 11 filmed?
40 Win 39–1 Tony Galento TKO 4 filmed
39 Win 38–1 Jack Roper KO 1 filmed
38 Win 37–1 John Henry Lewis KO 1
37 Win 36–1 Max Schmeling KO 1 filmed
36 Win 35–1 Harry Thomas KO 5 (
35 Win 34–1 Nathan Mann KO 3 (15) filmed
34 Win 33–1 Tommy Farr UD 15 filmed

33 Win 32–1 James J. Braddock KO 8 filmed
32 Win 31–1 Natie Brown KO 4 .
31 Win 30–1 Bob Pastor UD 10 filmed>?
30 Win 29–1 Steve Ketchel
29 Win 28–1 Eddie Simms TKO 1
28 Win 27–1 Jorge Brescia KO 3
27 Win 26–1 Al Ettore KO 5 (15),
26 Win 25–1 Jack Sharkey KO 3 filmed
25 Loss 24–1 Max Schmeling KO 12 . filmed
24 Win 24–0 Charley Retzlaff KO 1 (
23 Win 23–0 Paulino Uzcudun TKO 4 ( Used to be hard to get ) filmed
22 Win 22–0 Max Baer KO 4 filmed
21 Win 21–0 King Levinsky TKO 1 filmed
20 Win 20–0 Primo Carnera TKO 6 filmed

 

I judge chins when hit. Louis was suspect when hit, going down quickly vs. some who were not skilled and stunned by non punchers, some of whom were small.

Some in the top ten in the 1930's were ranked # simply because the depth was thin. Example Galento at #1? Nova at #1? Bettina at #1. You get the point

At least we agree the 70's and 90's were better.

60's had Patterson, Fraizer, Liston and Ali

80's Tyson, Holmes and Witherspoon and a ton of others who were much better than the bum of the month types.

Look, I'm a Wlad fan and he did not have a good chin! Yet he holds the record for a champion not being floored because he had good footwork, a top guard, and knew how to clinch if needed to his advantage with great strength. I can not see Wlad being floored by Braddock, stunned by Conn or Farr. I can't see him being caught / floored by Galento, B Bear, etc...

 

Well you can tell me.

The 60's had Patterson, Liston, Ali, and Frazier
The 70's had Aii, Foreman, Frazier and Norton
The 80's had Holmes, Tyson, Witherpsoon, and Holyfield.
The 90's had Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson and Bowe

Can you show me 4 as good in the 1930's and 1940'? See my point? You can list the 4 best from the 30's and 40's, they don't measure up, I'm sure you will agree.

Another way to look at it, I listed 8 names, which in all fairness should rate among the top 20 of all time. You could argue 9 .

How many are there from the 1930's-1940's in your top 20? Joe Louis and.....maybe you can argue Schemling as top 20.

If you want to go into the weeds the contenders were in general bigger, more skilled and hit harder in comparison too in the decades I mentioned.

 

Thanks for the in-depth two part reply. I would love to see the Bivins bout if it exists and the Lou Nova bout if it exists - I haven’t found evidence of them yet.
As for your list Pastor 2 was filmed and is available online - pretty good quality.
I’ve seen Uzcudon but the quality I’ve seen is terrible. Same for JH Lewis which is very brief and also online. I’ve seen his Lee Savold fight online. Good quality.
Also I’ve seen clips of two exhibitions of his - Valentino destroys him and Rex Layne he looks bad in that one. let me know if the Uzcudon you watch is good quality and thanks for replying again

 

Louis is the HW JMM.

 

I would refer you to your own thread, which upheld the 30s, and 40s, left the 60s in very serious doubt, and is probably going to give grim view of the 80s!

 

OK, but you are avoiding the obvious question!

Why wasn't Louis getting stopped?

 

If memory serves Braddock was able to shoulder roll a right hand and counter with an uppercut. Joe misjudged the distance on Galento's leaping left hook. Walcott turns his back and caught Louis coming in. Buddy was a failure in ring craft. He was closer to the ropes than he thought and couldn't get away from the left. The real answer? **** happens at heavyweight.

 

Yes troll ..

 

Louis was decked yes,....but....unlike Tyson...he got off the canvas....and he came back to win the fight!!!

 

Lack of skilled punchers faced. Only Schmeling was there. Also Louis had quite an offense.

We could be miles apart of you think Galento or buddy Bear were skilled punchers

 

The 30s had Louis, Schmeling, Baer and Sharkey.

It's better list than 80s one with Witherspoon and Holyfield who didn't fight at HW in this decade.

 

Walcott? Nova? Baer? Come on, Louis fought plenty of punchers.

 

That's why it took Schmeling 12 rds to get him out.
Why didn't he go down from Max Baer's cheap shot?