Jack Sharkey vs Johnny_B

I never said Johnny's claim wasn't silly! In fact, it's so ridiculous, that it shouldn't be taken seriously - which I thought would be pretty obvious!

 

The number of pro fights that takes place worldwide has doubled over the last couple of decades alone - from around 15,000 in 2000 to approx. 30,000 in 2019. How does this indicate, that boxing is dying?

No, I don't live on another planet, but in Denmark - which you, as an American, likely have never heard of:

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What is the basis for this claim? The record keeping has changed so much with boxrec, that you can't take it at face value.

If what you meant was the weaker claim that the increase is recorded fights on boxrec is recent years suggests the sport isn't dying, I woudn't object to that. But it's impossible to say how much of that change is to with changes in recording, since they've gone from having to get old records, newspapers etc., to having the comissions send them data on all their fights.

 

Very well aware of Denmark. But we’ve had this convo before. Better records are kept today then a hundred years ago. Not only that but let’s face it Denmark isn’t exactly the hub of athletic excellence. Boxing could very well be more popular in Europe and Asia but here in the states it’s a dying sport. And the best athletes are in the states wether you want to admit it or not.

 

Are you saying, that with more and more countries taking up pro boxing (not least the former communist block), you don't think it's likely, that the BoxRec numbers reflects an actual increase in activity worldwide? Looking at the numbers, it's difficult not to recognize a gradual growth since the fall of The Wall.

You're right, we have no way of knowing, how accurate the numbers are, but I certainly don't think they suppport the idea, that boxing is dying - which is the point I'm trying to make.

 

What has Denmark's lack of athletic excellence got to do with the general state of boxing? Why would you even bring something like that into the discussion?

Yes, it goes without saying, that many of the best athletes are Americans. We all know that - so why do you feel, I have to "admit" this?

And among those great US athletes are of course many boxers - they are simply not as dominant these days, now that boxing has become truly international.

 

Boxing was always international it’s just lost a lot of Americans lol.

 

No it wasn't!

Back in the "Golden Age" (20s and 30s), everything that mattered in boxing took place in the US. You didn't have boxers flying back and forth between continents all the time - so you basically had Americans fighting other Americans, with little interference from the outside world.

One only has to look at the old Ring ratings from that time, to see the overwhelming number of Top-10 ranked Americans - and then compare that to more recent rankings, where the US domination is not quite as overwhelming... to put it mildly!

 

This isn’t true at all. They might box more today over seas but it was around in the 20/30s. Maybe someone more historically sound can comment here. But your comment kind of proves my point. If more Americans boxed they would be rated over the competitors today...most likely. Hence the sport is dying. Back in the 60/70s there was a boxing gym in most neighborhoods in the states. Now it’s hard to find one in close proximity. Even harder to find one that has a trainer worth a damn (they are out there though!).

 

Like I said, I don't take an issue with using them as evidence against boxing being dying, but there's good reason to think the records are a lot more complete too, since you're comparing records that have had to be gathered from the past, to ones actively being sent to boxrec by the comissions, of course the latter will be significantly more complete, and I'm not convinced that can be quantified well enough to tell how the number of pro fights compare over time.

 

Looks like Johnny B is pulling away in the poll!

 

This is one of those threads that when you begin reading you have to carry on, regardless of how much it makes you cringe.

Similar to watching those old Hammer Horror movies when I was a child.
I know what I see next is going to haunt me but I can't help myself.

 

"If more americans boxed they would be rated over the competitors today... most likely. Hence the sport is dying".

What a strange thing to say! Don't you see, that you're exactly like those in the geography video - only interested in what goes on in the US, and doesn't give a damn about the rest of the world.

Again, how does fewer active Americans equate to a global slump?

 

Most of them are FAR less skilled, they would get beat by all the top modern amateurs.

There isn't. I see myself as more skilled. I agree with you that you need to actually fight, but I do that all the time, the only difference being that I use head gear 99% of the time and that we don't go all out on each other.

You probably meant Isiah Thomas, there's also a Isaiah Thomas, who is a current NBA player.
Anyway, the old one, Isiah, played in the NBA from 81 to 94, so he's a modern pro.
Sharkey fought 100 years ago. Using your analogy, the 7 foot former high school basketball player would beat any pro basketball player from 100 years ago.

 

My skill has constantly evolved since day 1, I'm a million times more skilled now than as a kid. Otherwise, I would never make the claims I have.