Is Chris Eubank the lowest ranked divisional ATG ever?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jul 21, 2020.


  1. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You are yes. So are they.
     
  2. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    No he isn't, Lamotta was never in the top 2 best middleweights in the world based on his real results. Your beloved The Ring reported he lost to 3 middleweights in the time he was supposedly Top 2. He got gift decisions and a title shot because he was MOB backed. He was never better than Yarosz, Villemain or Robinson in the MW division.

    You're also ignoring the Quartey example. He was never ranked above 3rd in a division and we know many people had him beating one of the best P4P boxers of the era

    You also completely ignore The Rings possible geographical bias. Which is pretty obvious given they ranked Barkley above Eubank
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Exactly that's all we are. They are paid to write about this sport, I've no doubt they know more about me across the board.
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    LaMotta doesn't meet the criteria.

    Quartey is not a top ten WW ATG.

    I'm not ignoring anything, I'm asking a question that so far no one, including myself, has been able to answer.
     
  5. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Lamotta doesn't make the ambiguous Ring Magazine rankings criteria, he makes the obvious criteria of never being the 2nd best middleweight in the world. Eubank is better and greater than Lamotta too

    Also WBO 1990s SMW title defenses > 1940s MW Sham Title defenses
     
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Here's the thing, I always class Eubanks as a top ten SMW by default without thinking too much about it.

    But then when I did start thinking about it, I realised that Cordoba, Nunn, Toney and Jones were always ranked above him as SMW champions and it got me thinking

    Is it fair to include Eubank as a top ten SMW when as far as I can tell, no other fighter in history has filed to crack their divisions top 2, yet became a consensus top 10 ATG.

    Hence the thread.

    As I said, I'm a massive Eubank fan. Him, Naz and Bruno got me into boxing. Nothing will ever displace that. I followed Haye and Froch up and down the country watching them fight. I read stories about the fights between Jeannette and McVey which left me gob smacked. I was amazed at the tales of Bob Fitzsimmons jumping from MW to HW knocking out both champs.

    But nothing will change my love for Bruno, Naz and Eubank.

    This is just purely a wondering I've had when considering how I compare Eubank to other SMW fighters.
     
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who'd you have above LaMotta after he beat Williams and Cerdan? Robinson, yes, but whom else?
     
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    You can't mention LaMotta and Williams in the same sentence to him.
     
  9. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Villemain and Yarosz. Both were robbed against him, the commision even considered overturning the Villemain decision. I think this is the only time in history a decision has been debated enough for a commision to consider overturning it. Which shows how bad it was. Villemain went on to beat him when he was champion slightly over the MW class.

    If Marshall and Lytell can make 160 they beat him on fair scorecards. And Burley probably still beats him coming into that period even if he's past his best
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Decisions don't get overturned.

    But judges do get suspended, more regularly than you'd think.

    All 3 were suspended when Williams somehow got the decision over Lara.
     
  11. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    While a fair point, this is incredibly rare, with all the dodgy decisions in boxing
     
  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, it seems fair to have at least Villemain over him as well, but Yarosz hadn't made 160 in many years. So, yes, I don't think there's a clear cut time when LaMotta breaks into the top 2. But while I have seen him in top 10 ATG MW lists, I wouldn't say that's a consensus choice.
     
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  13. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    While not a consensus choice there seems to be a myth of Lamotta where I've seen people pick him over Hagler, Hopkins, Toney, RJJ amongst other boxers where he'd be way out of his depth.
     
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    For what it's worth, The Golden Ball in football was much better when only journalists voted. When national captains and coaches got a vote too it started to detoriate imo.

    And of course they can spot quality better than a journalist, but they are mostly going to be concerned about their own team and teams they come up against. Many probably don't even watch other games, since they get their fill as it is. For the journalists, their whole job is to watch games and write about them. They don't spend their whole day training and preparing. They watch and they write.

    And then there's always going to be the personal factor as well, being more prone to vote for teammates and less to vote for players of rival teams.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He is often overrated, yes. I had a long discussion about that years ago here on this board.
     
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