Why did Holyfield struggle against lesser fighters

It was stupid enough the first time you explained it.

 

Holyfield was on the decline during the Bowe series and the Moorer fights. He was clearly past his best against Lewis. He was still world class and one of the best but he was on the downhill for sure.
AND all three of those were good fighters, so it's no shame in losing anyway.

He had one of his worst nights against Moorer the first time, and STILL the fight could easily have been scored his way.

 

He had only been interested in a Tyson rematch since June 2002. Anything else spelt retirement and he only met Vitali on account of a contractual obligation, at the risk of losing a shedload of cash.

So what? That was pre-Tyson and a year and a half earlier than when Lewis and Vitali fought. It would have been more than two years since then had a Lewis/Vitali rematch been arranged.

When you're already in your late-30s, that's a long time.

 

Show me your score cards on Lewis vs Holyfield 1 and Ruiz vs Holy 1? Do you really think they are draws? I say he clearly lost both of them.

No--its not stupid. Unless you actually agree with those cards. It's clear as day Holyfield received favorable judging on Juice.

Calling you out. Scorecards please. If you duck me, we both know why. I am correct. I'll stand on that and back it up with lots of data.

Your move.

 

Okay, his prime was over for Bowe? That's nonsense! He got pounded plain and simple. Come on Unforgiven, your not Dino.

Moorer exploited his inability to deal with a Jab.

 

WRONG. Lewis tried to make matched with Kirk Johnson and Roy Jones after his fight with Vitali. The re-match could have been in 6 months if Lewis really wanted it.

 

You consistently make these claims and I consistently ask for you to evidence them. You have never produced any.

I'm not talking about speculation and hearsay. I mean actual evidence that demonstrates the Lewis Camp was seeking to make a match with either of Johnson or Jones, after Lewis/Vitali.

 

Very well said. It’s def not a shot at Holyfield either. He’s one of my favorite fighters but he wasn’t this top five fighter that some seem to place him as. He was a warrior that would give anyone a tough night. An all time chin but he did lack in other areas...and no I don’t think size had anything to do w it and I sight his problems with Qawi, Moorer, Byrd and Toney as evidence.

 

This thread could be about any ATG. Great fighters all need great challenges to rise to. There’s a long list of legends who struggled with far lesser opponents.

 

Murad Muhammed said they had a provisional agreement to fight Lennox Lewis but it fell through after Lewis decided to quit after the Vitali fight.

 

Sorry - That isn't evidence.

 

I don't care about your score cards. The Holyfield-Ruiz fight (the 1st one) was close, and too dull to score right now. You think I'm going to watch it again to satisfy your request, when we both know you won't stop with this nonsense.
Holyfield was OLD and way past his best against Ruiz, so what's even your point ?

I had Lewis winning both the fights with Holyfield.

On the other hand, the 1st Holyfield-Moorer fight could definitely be a win for Holyfield, or a draw, as bad as he looked, you could argue to did enough to retain the title against a not-urgent-enough Moorer.
Even a 46 year old Holyfield was perhaps robbed against Valuev ..... so your theory that he was habitually receiving favourable judging doesn't stand up.
I think even you acknowledge the draw in the 3rd Ruiz fight was maybe unfair to Holyfield. To be fair.

But like I said before, you slant almost all the close fights towards the opponent and against Holyfield - and then call your cards "the fair score cards".
Worse, you ignore the fact that Holyfield was severely past his best in the 2000s, but you talk about his "10 losses".

The only really bad decision Holyfield got a blatant gift with was the first Lewis fight, and it was a "DRAW" gift.

Your interpretation of the data is weak.

 

I didn't say his prime was over for Bowe. I think Bowe fought a GREAT fight. I give Bowe all the credit.
I'd say his prime ended with the first Bowe fight, but you could say the 2nd Bowe fight, or at a push you could have the first Moorer fight where he was clearly on the decline. There's really no question that 1994, 1995 he past his prime. Yes, he made a nice little comeback around 1996-'99 but his prime started around 1987 ! (so naturally, especially with all the hard fights, it's not surprising he went downhill around '93 or '94).

No one at the time doubted any of this.

 

He was a 40 year old man with A LOT of hard heavyweight miles on the clock against Byrd and Toney.

I find it remarkable that anyone would cite those fights as evidence of anything.
But there seem to be a few people here who do so, or at least find such arguments to legitimate.

 

It is witness evidence