Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Holmes

1. Witherspoon
2. Norton
3. Cooney
4. Mercer
5. Shavers (either win, both very impressive in their own right)

Pretty good top 5.

Weaver and Bonecrusher miss the top 5 but were decent to good wins.

Holmes did miss out on Coetzee, Dokes, Page, Pinklon etc. Wins over 2 or 3 of these guys would have considerably enhanced his resume.

 

Larry Holmes

1. Witherspoon
2. Norton
3. Mercer
4. Cooney
5. Shavers

 

norton
witherspoon
mercer
weaver
shavers

but his strenght lies in his next 5, Snipes, Cooney, Smith, Leon, Berbick(or Williams).

 

Holmes

Norton
Cooney
Witherspoon
Mercer
Shavers

Cooney over spoon because it was such a mega event and Cooney was coming off an absolute blitzing of Norton. Spoon was 15-0 and nobody had heard of him, yet.

 

I am mulling this over a bit before making my list. I'm not certain Ali shouldn't make this list as his name is so critical to Holmes' stature and claim to the lineal title.

Overall, Holmes has one of the deepest resumes, but the top five wins are not all that impressive. If Ali is on the list, he is both old and gone. Norton was aging and Witherspoon green and both were controversial split decisions. There should have been rematches, especially with Witherspoon, for Holmes to really prove his superiority. Cooney was explosive but there are large question marks over his career. Shavers couldn't beat old Ali in 1977 and was stopped by Quarry, Lyle, Mercado, and Cobb. He can't be viewed as an overpowering scalp. A lot of his rep comes from knocking down Holmes and like Cooney blowing out the past it Norton.

On the other hand, Holmes beat a huge number of second-tier guys. I think only Ali and Louis, and possibly Johnson, have deeper resumes. He record strikes me as closest to Johnson. Johnson lost early as a pro while Holmes was fighting amateur at that age, so those KO losses are not on his pro record. Both then went on over decades long undefeated streaks, broken by Johnson only by the disputed Hart loss. Neither has that outstanding signature win, except for beating the old and gone Jeff and Ali in their comeback fights.

Reactions. Poor Leon Spinks. No one has put him on any list yet, have they? Embarrassing for a lineal champ.

Holmes went 43-0 against fighters who did not have 20 pro wins. He was 26-6 against those who did.

It is really odd, and a cloud of sorts over both, that Foreman and Holmes, born in the same year and with overlapping careers, never fought.

 

I never found Holmes wins over Norton or Witherspoon controversial - I thought he beat both men wider than the cards had them.
I think I had norton fight 9-6 Holmes. And I barely gave Witherspoon a round until the 9th round of their bout

 

I am a little surprised that he Witherspoon win, is ranked so highly by so many.

If it had been a couple of years later, then I could understand it.

 

Ehh idk there all not that great. Norton would be 1 if he had been prime. Cooney was a good win but he had his own problems. Shavers maybe could be ranked higher then 5? There all decent wins but there isn’t that standout one like say Frazier for foreman or Ali for Frazier or Tyson for Holyfield.

 

Larry Holmes 5 best wins

1 Norton - Clearly on the slide, still had enough left to be Holmes best win
2 Shavers - Either win would work I’d lean towards the first fight here
3 Mercer - He and Witherspoon are practically tied for me
4 Witherspoon - I’d rate him,career wise, over Mercer but not the respective versions faced by Holmes
5 Cooney - A strong number 5 compared to a lot of past champions

Weaver, Smith, and Berbick all have good arguments to be in the top 5. Almost anyone in his top 7-8 wins could be moved up or down a couple slots without any controversy.

 

If this was a top 10 thread, Holmes would be up there with Louis and Ali of the ones so far and while his top 5 is solid, so are a lot of the others. Surprising as I rate him highly but I suppose you can only fight whats out there.. the fighters that he didn't meet would not have enhanced his top 5 much, if at all.,

 

There I have to poop the party!

Holmes's top ten is excellent, but his top five is poor for an ATG.

You can only fight the best out there, but he was not even trying to do that!

He never defended against the #1 contender, even once, and top five were rare!

Some of the men that he declined to fight, could have enhanced his legacy a lot in my eyes!

Why did we take so long to appreciate Waldamir Klitschko?

 

the Holmes-Witherspoon fight is on you tube. I hope to get time to watch it tonight or tomorrow. I just had time to watch a bit of the last round and the decision. Angelo Dundee and Chris Schenkel both volunteered that they thought Witherspoon won. I haven't seen it since watching the original fight. What I did notice is that Holmes had both eyes badly swollen while Witherspoon looked unmarked. Anyway, I'll try to re-watch it with the sound down and see what I think.