I've made no such case .he was still a dangerous opponent but his reflexes ,never the quickest had clearly eroded, and his dedication to training had gone South much earlier.The fact that he gave Martin such a good go is commendable imo, he just ran out of gas.
Well, I'd give him a much better chance against most heavies than you do! I definitely think him beating Leon Spinks should be a staple though, same with Hart and Burns.
I think I picked him over: Corbett, Fitz, Hart, Sharkey, Carnera, Schmeling, Baer, Walcott, Leon Spinks, Briggs and Rahman. With 50/50s vs: Jeffries and Douglas I might be overrating him, but I really do think his blistering right hand, ferocious finishing, speed and feinting lead-hand is bad for a lot of heavyweights, and so I think he'd do well for himself in a round-robin involving every lineal champion. My good friend, and poster @The Undefeated Lachbuster has also pondered the fact whether Ingo was the better of the two vs Patterson, and slipped after beating him. I think he sited the difference in their fights with Machen (don't quote me on that, I might have just done that in my own head at the time), although Patterson certainly did better vs London, and probably Cooper too.
Tbf if we go off the notion that Ingemar was washed after his fight with Patterson then the London fight is easily explainable I think it's pretty undebatable that Ingo wasnt in the right mind for at least the 3rd fight, coming in 10lbs heavier than the previous 2 fights. It was still incredibly close.
So, at the age of 28 with just 24 fights Ingo was washed up? Or just maybe he was never that good in the first place?
He was much better fighter than Briggs. His chin wasn't excellent, so it's possible that he'd stop him but I find it very unlikely.
Yes he was washed, despite being young his mind wasn't in the right place and he was lazy with training
I think what they are saying is that the two astonishing back to back wins over Machen and Patterson really show that Ingo was really something special back then. Time has shown that After the shattering knockout from Floyd however, Ingo never really got his mojo going again. Floyd really beat a special unbeaten fighter in his prime when he recaptured the title...and I think it was certainly Seen that way initially at the time. However, the rematch was too hard fought for either guy to really look that great of a fighter I think. And it looks a level below the two previous fights where one or the other showed that they could win emphatically. This was a rough fight that took a lot out of both guys too. that Ingo never was the same kind of fighter ever again probably robs Floyd of the credit he deserves-because it just looks like Ingo went off the boil once he became champion. Maybe he did. Maybe he could never hope to be the same again after that hard knockout. The evidence is he never was as good. And probably neither was Floyd.
finally! Ingo has got to be the worst one-trick pony in the business, and the most overrated heavyweight champion of all time by far
No Sir you interpreted the post that by Choklab that you agreed with incorrectly. The earliest year that he presented was 1929, so the oldest he could have been when he died is 40-41l And as he cited, some folks look much older than they are. Hard living & genetics play a strong part.
I normally read everything on a thread before answering. But I do not see the evidence that most experts believe Liston was born before 1930-or sometimes 1929. The census & most testimony seems to point to 1930 or so. His Sister's belief does not trump his Mothers. Feel free to tell me why you believe that this strongly sourced summery from Wikipedia is incorrect: There is no official record of Liston's birth. His family's home state of Arkansas did not make birth certificates mandatory until 1965.[url][9][/url] His family, but not one Charles (or Sonny) Liston, can be found in the 1930 census, and in the 1940 census he was listed as 10 years old.[url][9][/url][url][10][/url] It has been suggested Liston himself may not have known what year he was born, as he was not precise on the matter. Liston believed his date of birth to be May 8, 1932 and used this for official purposes[url][10][/url] but by the time he won the world title an aged appearance added credence to rumors that he was actually several years older.[url][10][/url][url][11][/url][url][9][/url][url][12][/url][url][13][/url] One writer concluded that Liston's most plausible date of birth was July 22, 1930, citing census records and statements from his mother during her lifetime.[url][13][/url]
