Trying to make sense of Zale and Cerdan......

Hmm? looks like Zale's management knew they needed to protect him . I never knew his post war competition was that poor, his trilogy with the overrated Graziano saved him from Burley and LaMotta .

 

Can't argue with that.

 

Zale was a tough man and a worthy champion, but like many others he missed quite few out during his ranked years.
Overlin
Burley
Lytell
Garcia
Moore
Wade
Washington
Priest
Baroudi
Mauriello
Vigh
Henry
Williams
Lamotta
Richards
Belloise
Dellicurti
Marshall
Welch
Stewart
Fernandez
Brown
Bivins

 

A lot info here and appreciative of the info on Nat Fleischer and The Ring. But this post didn't deal at all with Abe Greene recommending an elimination series in October of 1946 with LaMotta fighting Burley with the winner to take on the winner of the Cerdan-Abrams fight to establish the next challenger after the upcoming Zale-Graziano rematch. Greene seems to have been reacting to the NYSAC naming LaMotta as the next challenger and so ignoring the other contenders. Why didn't LaMotta fight Burley? Was it because as the designated challenger there was nothing for him to gain from such a fight?

Zale as "low-hanging fruit"--whether he was or wasn't, he was the champion and so the man all the contenders wanted to get into the ring with. Can't blame Graziano and his management for preferring a fight with Zale for both bigger money and the championship.

As for Zale, why shouldn't he fight the man who is both the rated #1 contender and perhaps more importantly, the challenger who will bring in by far the biggest gate. What is he supposed to do? Announce he doesn't agree with Graziano's high ranking and so will fight Burley or LaMotta for a lot less money?

As for Cerdan ducking an elimination. Who with? In the March, 1948 NBA ratings LaMotta isn't even rated among the 9 contenders. Such an elimination should have been with either Belloise or Lytell.

Cerdan should not be lumped with Graziano. He went 21-1 from the beginning of 1946 to the LaMotta fight and beat everyone he fought, including the champion and three guys rated as top five middles.

There also is an assumption made that Zale's weak non-Graziano opposition "proves" he was gone. But fighting weaker opposition in and of itself doesn't prove inferiority, or Layne would have defeated Marciano and Frazier would have handled Foreman.

Also, if anyone seems to have gotten a title go through the pull of the mob, it was LaMotta, who was the #7 contender in 1949 when he got the shot at Cerdan. It has been mentioned that Cerdan wasn't paid for the LaMotta fight. Well, he wasn't even paid for the ZALE fight. There is an article online from 1949 which explains that Cerdan's purse for the Zale fight went to Abe Greene to hold until Cerdan fought a rematch with Zale. When Zale retired, the money continued to be held until Cerdan defended against a designated opponent at a designated site. This opponent turned out to be the #7 ranked LaMotta at Detroit. Submitting to this arrangement was the only way Cerdan could get a fight with Zale.

The info on Cerdan not receiving his purse for the Zale fight comes from an article in the Detroit Free Press on June 15, 1949, by Tommy Devine.

 

Cerdan was better than Graziano,Lamotta was better than Graziano, Burley was better than Graziano.The fact that Graziano split a trilogy with Zale proves to me Zale was past his sell by date and his performance ,or lack of it against Cerdan , is the confirmation for any doubters.

 

that kind of makes Zale look like a wimp; I've never even heard of some of those guys, like Washington, Mauriello, Vigh, Henry, Dellicurti, Stewart, Fernandez, and Brown. What are their first names?

 

I think Zale was the real thing but he did miss a lot of guys.
Ben Brown 39
Tami Mauriello 40
Vic Dellicurto39
Ossie Stewart 41&42
Ernie Vigh 40 &41
Bee Bee Washington 45
George Henry 45
I stress these are end of year ratings some may never have been ranked again,equally some may have been ranked several times through the years. I've excluded 42 -44 As Zale was in the service.

 

Greene stated in October of 1946 that he wanted an elimination between Jake and Burley. Just after this statement Jake got married to Vikki and had one fight in Chicago against Anton Raadik which served the dual purpose of getting Jake revenge for the beating Raadik gave Joey and serving as a kind of honeymoon. After that Jake and Vikki spent the winter in Florida with Rocky, his wife, Jackie Healey, and his wife or girlfriend, Im not sure what she was to him. He had no fights during this period. He was interviewed while down there and stated his intention of fighting for the title. A local promoter wanted to match him and Rocky while they were down there. Jake was game, Rocky wasnt. While they were down there Burley signed to fight Bert Lytell and then lost to him in very convincing fashion. Burley was bumped down and talks of him fighting an elimination died.

Once again, after the first Graziano fight, for nearly a year the title was frozen while Zale fought no hopers and all contenders who were well placed basically marked time. Jake had two big fights at the Garden, one against Tommy Bell and another against Janiro. Believing the other contenders and Zale would fight him if he looked vulnerable he decided to do just enough to win against Cecil Hudson but ended up not doing enough and lost. During this time he was approached by Eddie Coco and Tony Salerno about throwing a fight in exchange for a title shot. He had spurned all offers. After the Cecil Hudson fight, feeling he would never get his title shot he accepted an offer to throw the Fox fight that originated from Thomas Milo, an associate of Joey's who would eventually bankroll Joey's shylock business. Once Jake threw that fight and did it very poorly he was banned, ostensibly because he didnt report an issue with his spleen which he blamed for his poor performance but everyone knew it was because he had thrown the fight. This ban resulted in him being bumped from the ratings

As Ive said before, I dont begrudge Zale fighting Graziano, once, for the money. But again, lets not confuse that with Zale not being shot and not taking the least risk for most reward while keeping his title on a shelf and well protected. Lets also not pretend that Graziano deserved his shot, earned it, or deserved a second shot ahead of all of the guys who were waiting for years for a shot and somehow got leap frogged by a popular mob fighter who never had to fight a worthy contender to get his title shot. Tieing up the title for nearly three years between a guy who was shot and just trying to extend his reign to cash out and a guy who didnt deserve his first shot to begin with is ridiculous.

And isnt it just convenient that as soon as Zale's schedule opens up Graziano briefly, somehow, finds himself rated #1 just in time for Zale to sign for that fight and immediately after the fight is signed Graziano drops back down without every fighting a contender to begin with and without losing during that period...

He certainly fought more threatening middleweights than Graziano but the fact remains that he spent the vast majority of his career feasting on a very weak European competition before fighting an aging Williams and barely beating him, fighting an aging Abrams, and winning the title from a shot Zale. Does anyone really believe he would have defended against LaMotta if Jake hadnt paid Cerdan's mob handlers nearly $100,000 for the opportunity?

Who made this statement? Not me. It merely proves Zale wasnt taking any risks and he wasnt.

While this is true it also, once again, ignores the context of the situation. Jake was only rated #7 because the mob forced him to throw a fight lest he be frozen out of a title shot. So its pretty weak to say Jake got an undeserved title shot from the mob because he was rated #7 when his #7 rating was a result of the mob to begin with.

Im not sure why thats pertinent. It doesnt change the fact that Cerdan was controlled by the mob and his purse from the LaMotta fight was kept by them.

 

Good stuff!

 

Zale was certainly the real thing, but almost every fighter ends up not fighting many of his greatest contemararies, unfortunately. The only guy on that list I'd ever heard of was Tami Mauriello, didn't know he fought as a middleweight. Interested now in these other fighters and will look them up.

 

You've heard of
Charles
Bivins
Moore
Wade
Burley
Belloise
Lamotta
Richards
Marshall
Lytell
Overlin
Garcia
Edgar
Though haven't you,well don't go looking for them on Tony's record

 

I know all of them but Edgar.

 

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/11779

 

He did defeat Brown. But were these guys better than Hostak, Soose, Apostoli, Abrams, and Conn that Zale did fight?

 

Five ranked middles doesn't make a career does it?