Olivares vs Chavez, Who was Better and/or Greater?

Simple as that. Ruben Olivares and Julio Cesar Chavez. Who looks better on film and who was the greater fighter in your opinion?

 

I think this is between Mexico's best and brightest; their clear top two. And it's as close a comparison as you can get all-round IMO.

I tend to think Chavez was more refined but less flashy, whereas Olivares was more talented, but less polished. Both have the staple punch of Mexico mastered, the left hook. I think Chavez's was more Frazier-esque, he had it like a loaded gun, ready to shoot off at any second. On the other hand, Olivares' hook was more like a scythe cutting crops, or the top crop of the bantams.

Olivares had more talent, and was probably a bit quicker in a pound for pound sense. He absolutely hit harder when his menacing short shots. I really liked his tripwire counter, where he'd fire that left hook around an incoming right hand. He definitely wasn't as tough. Or as dedicated, having eaten his way out of the bantamweight division.

As I say, I find Chavez more skilled. Hands high, chin tucked, perfect form, feet under him at all times, every facet of the game mastered and the technical acumen to rival the best of them. He's the type a guy you show an amateur to study. The Rosario fight, his magnum opus, is a treasure trove of infighting techniques. Actually, I've just had a thought which could be an interesting debate in and of itself. Better performance: Rose or Rosario? Personally I'd go Rose. Lionel was just an all-round better fighter than Rosario IMO, and Olivares looked even more devastating vs a better fighter. Although technically speaking, Chavez probably showed better skills in his fight with Edwin.

The pair's achievements is even closer. I'd say that Olivares has the clear edge in résumé, while Chavez was better at moving up in weight as was possibly the most consistent fighter in history. So here it's kinda what you like. I have always and will always prefer résumé to anything else. It's just how I do things. Both had elite résumés, Chavez's includes:

• Roger Mayweather; Beat Paz, Bayesmore, Serrano, Alverado, Arrenondo, Alli, Brazier, Gonzalez, Martinez. Two weight world champ.

• Rocky Lockridge; beat Mayweather, troubled/robbed vs Gomez and Pedroza.

• Edwin Rosario; top 3 lightweight puncher. Beat Ramirez, Bramble, Davis, Elizondo, Randall, Jones and Nazario.

• Jose Luis Ramirez; Beat Rosario and Ali, and pushed, Arguello, Rosario to the brink.

• Meldrick Taylor; ATG talent. Beat McGirt, Davis and won 9 of 11 rounds vs Chavez.

• Hector Camacho; Limon, Boza, Ramirez, Rosario, Davis, Pazienza, Haugen, ATG talent.

• Frankie Randall; beat Chavez and Rosario.

Now, obviously there's about a bazillion contenders I left off just for the sake of time and effort, but their top wins are what you tend to look at. Olivares' includes:

• Lionel Rose; Top 10 BW, beat Harada, Castillo, Rudkin and Ishimatsu.

• Alan Rudkin; elite 'hard-luck' fighter. Arguably beat prime Rose, Harada, did beat McGowan and Elias.

• Chucho Castillo; Top 15 BW, beat Olivares, Herrera, Caraballo, Pimental and Medel. A real problem for anyone in history. Beat Twice.

• Bobby Chacon; brilliant talent, undefeated, wins over Lopez, Boza, Limon, Olivares etc; beat twice.

• Art Hafey; beat Olivares and Gamez. Awesome little guy.

• Jose Luis Ramirez; future LW champion. Beat Sweet Pea (albeit via robbery) Rosario, Ali, Boza and pushed Arguello and Rosario to the brink.

I tend to go with Olivares in this case. Better résumé, to me, normally means greater fighter. I know there's exceptions to that, but still. And I hold Olivares as the number one/two bantamweight head to head, so he's probably got an edge there.

 

That was on a whim, but I'd probably say that he's 11-15, but he's up there for me.